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Re: An ugly move to save a few bucks

Anonymous — Tue, 01 Sep 2009 23:57:35 -0000

Word, please stop stifling V-Man's creativity.

Go ahead, V-Man. If you want to compose a tune about it, I'll listen (um, read it).

Re: An ugly move to save a few bucks

wordslinger — Tue, 01 Sep 2009 22:16:52 -0000

--Iâ€™d say Thome is DH in the WS if heâ€™s hitting against a left handed starter.--

You mean a righty.

Re: An ugly move to save a few bucks

wordslinger — Tue, 01 Sep 2009 21:43:30 -0000

==As a Sox fan, it breaks my heart. If I donâ€™t put any emotions into it, it makes sense. Maybe Iâ€™m getting too old, but when I see all the guys coming and going through the Team over the years, I realize how hard it is to remain in love sometimes.--

VMan, it's baseball, dude, not ""Brokeback Mountain."

Re: An ugly move to save a few bucks

DuPage Dave — Tue, 01 Sep 2009 21:16:12 -0000

Two problems: 1. Sox lead AL with 100 errors, which results in leading the league in unearned runs.

2. The "Big 3" (Konerko, Dye, Thome) hitting .223 combined for August, with 30 RBI and 64 strikeouts.

Starting pitching is 3rd or 4th best in the league, depending on which measure you use. So no defense, no offense and you can't win anything.

Re: An ugly move to save a few bucks

Bobs yer — Tue, 01 Sep 2009 20:28:14 -0000

Williams stays!

When he was named GM, I saw it as a politically correct move by Reinsdorf....hey, put an inexperienced young guy in the job for MLB diversity purposes. WRONG.

Williams found guys from nowhere, spent more on Garcia and Contrereas than I thought they were worth, traded Carlos Lee for some quick guy from Milwuakee I never heard of, and brought in crazy Ozzie to manage. Result: holding the trophy in 2005. Not the overpaid, overjuiced Yankees, us.
Not the Cards (my second fave), us.

Only problem I ever had with him was his inability to make peace with Frank Thomas. Sure, he was a prima donna but also the best baseball player I've ever seen. Probably the best I'll ever see.

So I've stopped second guessing Williams. He knows a heck of a lot more about baseball than I do.

Re: An ugly move to save a few bucks

wordslinger — Tue, 01 Sep 2009 20:10:13 -0000

==Dodgers wanted to make sure he didnâ€™t end up playing 1st base for the Giants. So heâ€™ll sit the bench and wait for a situation to arise.--

Michelle, I heard that on the radio today, but it doesn't compute. No one, and I mean no one, in a pennant race was looking for Thome to play the field. Anywhere.

Like the man said, it's not personal, it's business.

Here's to Mr. Incredible, the Pride of Peoria. Best of luck, brother.

Re: An ugly move to save a few bucks

wordslinger — Tue, 01 Sep 2009 20:00:10 -0000

Joe in the Know, the players vote on playoff bonus shares, the owners decide on the rings.

In 2005, Reinsdorf gave a ring to everyone associated full-time with the club. I have a buddy who works in the front office. It's not the same as the players' ring, but it's as big as an ostrich egg.

Thome will be on the playoff roster, belivee me. He and Manny Hollywood, back together. We ain't in Cleveland anymore.

Re: An ugly move to save a few bucks

overcooked — Tue, 01 Sep 2009 17:25:07 -0000

It was great to have Jim Thome in a Sox uniform for several years. He seemed to be an inspiration to his teammates, especially Paulie, and his moonshot home runs were spectacular. However, his end time with the Sox was overdue, because a .250 batting average for a DH and his plodding on the basepaths needed to be moved to make room for options in the DH spot. Now our best hitter, AJ, does not have to sit when he does not catch. Thanks, Jim Thome, and good luck in LA.

Re: An ugly move to save a few bucks

Just a Reader — Tue, 01 Sep 2009 16:47:27 -0000

Rich, you're reading this trade wrong. It's not a baseball move (about the players you get). It's not a business move (about the salary you get rid of).

This is one of the most decent baseball moves I've seen. (That's decent in the human sense.) The Sox are going nowhere, and are giving a 39 year old all-time great one (last?) chance to chase that elusive World Series ring.

The Sox don't save money in the deal. They don't get anyone who's anyone. But they do the decent thing. As a bonus, maybe they generate a little goodwill in the process.

Re: An ugly move to save a few bucks

Been There — Tue, 01 Sep 2009 16:22:30 -0000

===Konerko, Dye, and Pierzinski donâ€™t appear to really care anymore ===
I would disagree about AJ. He gets ticked off at himself more than any of the other players.

===Weirder things have happened.â€ Yeah, but the Chicago teams are usually on the failing end.===
I thought last year was a pretty weird way to get into the playoffs. We ended up on the passing end that time.

Re: An ugly move to save a few bucks

Tom Joad — Tue, 01 Sep 2009 15:42:44 -0000

This was a wake up call to the remaining roster. The players are on notice that their tenure depends on the remaining games, if that wasn't apparent to them before.
It seems sad that we have to lament the loss of a player with a .252 batting average. It shows how we Sox fans have been accustomed to poor hitting the last few years.

Re: An ugly move to save a few bucks

Go Dodgers — Tue, 01 Sep 2009 15:40:03 -0000

Wordslinger is 100% correct.

And Michelle, Juan Pierre may be good on the bags, but he has to get there first. I'd say Thome is DH in the WS if he's hitting against a left handed starter.

Re: An ugly move to save a few bucks

Stones — Tue, 01 Sep 2009 15:09:21 -0000

The Sox have had the same problems since the '06 season i.e. too slow and poor defense. Moving Thome gives you some flexibility in improving those two things.

As far as Contreras goes, I admire the man for coming back from a bad injury last year and obviously losing a lot of weight and getting in shape. I feel he has a lot of miles on his arm and it shows now. Give him credit for a good career and being a big part of the '05 season but he is done.

Re: An ugly move to save a few bucks

The Curmudgeon — Tue, 01 Sep 2009 14:37:03 -0000

Wordslinger has it right in my opinion, too.

I'm sad to see Thome go -- but he's not getting any younger -- every interview I've seen recently indicates he's keenly aware that the sand is about through the glass -- and this may be his last, best chance. Since my Sox are out of it, color me Dodger Blue for the duration. Thome's a class act and deserves this shot.

As for dumping on Williams, he's had some misfires. But he seems to have hit more than he's missed. The trade to Arizona may be a famously bad one some day -- the prospect traded is already hitting a ton for the Dbacks. And Rios isn't doing much for me (or the team).

But, on balance, Kenny's done more good than not and deserves the benefit of the doubt.

Remember, the Sox weren't supposed to do better than 4th this year anyway... and next year is looking pretty darn good from here.

Re: An ugly move to save a few bucks

What planet is he from? — Tue, 01 Sep 2009 14:33:38 -0000

"Six games back with 11 against the Tigers and Twins. Weirder things have happened." Yeah, but the Chicago teams are usually on the failing end.

Re: An ugly move to save a few bucks

Wumpus — Tue, 01 Sep 2009 14:26:16 -0000

PS, both teams are out of first, but neither stink. CUbs are underachievers, but Sox are huge overacheivers with that roster.

Re: An ugly move to save a few bucks

South Side Mike — Tue, 01 Sep 2009 14:15:27 -0000

I'm mixed on the trades. In some ways, it seems like the Dodgers got away with a lot for Thome. Sending a Class A player for a HOF'er doesn't seem like a fair trade. But considering that the Dodgers don't expect Thome to play at all except to pinch hit (what sense does that make?), I guess maybe a high price wasn't in order.

I am stunned that we got anything for Contreras. Sure, he has one or two starts every 6-8 weeks that are decent, but the rest of the time he looks every bit the washed up 40 something player he really is (anyone really trust his birth certificate?). To get a full-time Triple A starter in return is impressive. And remember, his minor league ERA was with him playing in the Rockies.

I think sometimes Kenny Williams is too trigger happy, thinking like a fantasy league owner rather than a GM and trading just for the sake of trading. But this isn't White Flag II. The Sox have shown no ability to get on a real hot streak an catch the two teams in front of them. Williams at least tried to get something in return for one player gone in 5 weeks and another way past his prime. I'll give him a pass for these two.

Re: An ugly move to save a few bucks

Wumpus — Tue, 01 Sep 2009 14:14:36 -0000

Maybe they wanted to free up money and get some speed as he is painfully slow and hurts me to watch. You already have super Sox, Konerko, why need his twin?

Re: An ugly move to save a few bucks

L.S. — Tue, 01 Sep 2009 14:12:38 -0000

This is NOT a white flag trade. This is getting rid of a pitcher whose time is well past and getting SOMETHING for him. and it's probably more about letting Thome get a chance at a ring and open up the DH spot for Dye or Quinten so this team can start to figure out what next year is going to look like. All that being said, the starting line-up tonight, on paper, is still one that can compete. Six games back with 11 against the Tigers and Twins. Weirder things have happened.

Re: An ugly move to save a few bucks

Reality Check — Tue, 01 Sep 2009 14:10:30 -0000

I agree this was mostly a good-will gesture to Thome - put him in a pennant race. And I didn't read all the comments, so this may have been covered, but with respect to the question about whether he will be a Type B free agent after this year, two things. One, the info I've seen suggests he will be a Type A free agent (yielding two com draft picks). Two, though, nobody's going to offer him arbitration, so the comp issue is moot.

Re: An ugly move to save a few bucks

Tue, 01 Sep 2009 14:07:06 -0000

The Thome deal is a move for his sake- let him play out his contract with a real chance at the postseason rather than finishing the string with the Sox and then going on. A good point made at Soxmachine is that the move counters some of the bad blood exits some players have had from the Sox.

Contreras- that move got a pitcher with some upside in exchange or eating some share of Jose's salary. I can see not liking Jose for performance reasons the last couple seasons, but this is a guy that worked ridiculously hard and came back way ahead of schedule from what could have been a career ending injury, then volunteered to go down to the minors when things were going poorly. I respect him for that much. But his age shows on the mound- he can't face batters a second time in a game anymore. Those rare times now when he pulls it all together you can really see how good he must have been as a younger man in Cuba.

Re: An ugly move to save a few bucks

Pot calling kettle — Tue, 01 Sep 2009 14:06:52 -0000

TGIF - Thank God It's Football season!

(In November/December when the Bears start to tank, we can switch to the Hawks or Bulls, then back to the Sox in the Spring.)

I love the Sox, but it would be nice if they used the money they work so hard to save to lower ticket prices so I could afford to see a game or two.

Re: An ugly move to save a few bucks

First Timer — Tue, 01 Sep 2009 13:57:58 -0000

Joe in the Know,

Geoff Blum got a ring in 2005 despite playing in only 31 games for the Good Guys...soooooo, yeah, Thome will get a ring if they win.

Re: An ugly move to save a few bucks

Michelle Flaherty — Tue, 01 Sep 2009 13:25:42 -0000

Dodgers wanted to make sure he didn't end up playing 1st base for the Giants. So he'll sit the bench and wait for a situation to arise.
And that situation might not be the World Series. If the Dodgers were in the series, wouldn't you put Manny at DH and plop Juan Pierre in left field?

Re: An ugly move to save a few bucks

Fan of the Game — Tue, 01 Sep 2009 13:21:12 -0000

Thome has always represented his home state well, but this trade makes sense--as much as most sports deals can make sense.

And it's Cardinals all the way!