How about we use the purple thumb ink Iraqis used?
doubtful
· 1 year ago
From the pets article:
"Fido's not going to be left on there, but if a cat is named is Polly, she may be," Johnson said. Princess could be a person's name, she insisted. "I went to high school with two Princesses."
That made me chuckle. I think we all went to high school with some princesses!
I think it's unfortunate with all of the news related to attempted registration fraud that the general media hasn't done a better job of explaining it, and frankly McCain's hyperbolic rhetoric regarding ACORN in the last debate wasn't accurate or helpful either.
Any rational person knows that Mickey Mouse's registration won't be approved, nor will Mr. Mouse show up on election day and try to vote.
And if he does, well, he can always fill out a provisional ballot.
The worst part is the unnecessary waste erroneous registrations create.
Sweet Jane
· 1 year ago
Wouldn't it be voter fraud (i.e., showing up a polling place and voting under a fraudulent name, or voting multiple times) that would compromise the integrity of the election, as opposed to bad registrations, which are seemingly pretty commonplace under the best of circumstances (clerical error, people not realizing they are already registered, whatever)?
What will compromise the integrity of the election is if the county clerk doesn't do her job in making sure that registrations are valid BEFORE the election, which is what she is charged with doing. Sounds like someone is employing a little pre-emptive CYA action to me.
Missing Springfield
· 1 year ago
I am feeling really dumb - what is the big deal if a reg form is found out to be bogus? If it is not real, can't they just not register the non-person, no harm no foul, only real people vote?
wordslinger
· 1 year ago
Voter suppression is the most despicable form of political dirty tricks.
anon89
· 1 year ago
If this was a republican group that committed these "innocent mistakes" all hell would break loose and we'd be subject to endless hand wringing about GOP pols having a mandate.
When dems steal an election its all good. Ends justify the means.
Rich Miller
· 1 year ago
anon89, how does sending in a voter registration card for a goldfish qualify as stealing an election?
Take a deep breath.
Ela Observer
· 1 year ago
There were some very close races in Lake County the past 2 cycles. And it looks like there will be some turnovers on the Lake County board this time.
County Clerk Willard Helander (with support of the Lake County Republican Party) are playing defense. Schedule a dog-and-pony-show presser. Play it all up as if someone actually tried to register a goldfish.
OneMan
· 1 year ago
Considering what I saw when I early voted and what I have been hearing from my local election authority I can see why this guy is getting a bit tense.
We have had people show up to early vote wearing dozens of Obama buttons. We have had people calling the election office looking for yard signs and getting upset when the election commission doesn't have them. (Like several calls in one day spaced almost exactly 15 minutes apart).
Other stupid stuff to, it's like everyone has turned it up to 11 this time around.
wordslinger
· 1 year ago
Anon 89, I'm sure Pres. Gore would agree with you.
VanillaMan
· 1 year ago
Marketing and polling can lead certain political people into believing they can target unregistered voters and boost their party's election chances. Since the early days of demographic marketing and with the implementation of professional 24/7 politics, these two have joined into a Frankenstein, wrecking havoc on all elections.
Name the organization, and you see a fully funded, often by us, sub-group that focuses on registering the "right" kind of voters to help keep the entitlements these organizations live off of, surviving the swings of voter's whims.
Everyone is playing this game.
When FDR created massive federal entitlement programs, he set off a chain reaction whereby special interest groups joined lobbyists in demanding a share of our money. Good or bad, this now results in voter registration drives to keep the entitlements coming and these organization's spot at the trough open.
What we are seeing this year is open abuse of voter registration procedures. Since this summer, we have watched these groups' efforts turn malignant. Worse, we are seeing our presidential election threatened by these groups actions in swing states.
You thought 2000 was a stolen election? You thought 2004 was also stolen? Then perhaps you feel justified in stretching the law until you think it will get you the results you want. We are seeing groups of people disinterested in maintaining any semblance of election integrity, and only interested in an election result, regardless of means of attaining that result.
This is jeopardizing our entire system.
People are not as stupid as these groups are claiming they are. With every US Census, we again witness special interest groups claiming that they people they represent are too stupid to follow simple directions so that we must allow any results to be manipulated to ensure "fairness" and their version of "accuracy". Instead of objective results, these groups are pushing us to accept subjective results based on their predetermined subjectivity.
We may see laws changes so that we may be losing the ability to vote early. With the perception of rampant fraud spreading throughout the US, any election result that is not a landslide in popular vote, will be seen as tainted.
And that corrupts our entire system.
Greg
· 1 year ago
Princess was in the tank for Obama.
doubtful
· 1 year ago
anon89,
The facts on the ground don't support you hyperventilating.
For example, there are tworecent stories of Republican registration fraud, and, beyond the appropriate actions taking place, no one is making a big deal about them.
Certainly if you feel that the fraud perpetrated upon ACORN by a handful of their employees warrants justice department intervention than intellectual consistency demands you also believe Diebold should have been investigated in 2004 when the CEO of the company promised to deliver the election to George Bush, right? ;)
wordslinger
· 1 year ago
VMan, what "massive federal entitlement programs" did FDR create?
Anonymous
· 1 year ago
==Goldfish don’t vote. Not even dead ones.== Well, at least not in the suburbs...now in 1960 Chicago in the River wards, it was a different story.
Commonsense in Illinois
· 1 year ago
==Goldfish don’t vote. Not even dead ones.== Well, at least not in the suburbs...now in 1960 Chicago in the River wards, it was a different story.
Excessively rabid
· 1 year ago
Anon89 may have been hyperventilating but he has a point. Illinois dems' hypocrisy on this issue is amazing. If the GOP does something, it's the end of the world; if the Democrats do the same thing, ho hum.
Pot calling kettle
· 1 year ago
In Illinois, mailing in a voter registration form does not complete the process. Voters who register by mail must show two valid forms of ID, one with their current address, when they vote.
The Lake County Clerk simply needs to make sure her election judges follow the law.
Anonymous
· 1 year ago
WVWV didn't back Clinton in the primaries. Doesn't excuse the mis-steps, however.
phocion
· 1 year ago
Rich, I don't see how you conclude that a group that supported Hillary in the primaries is behind the Lake County voter registration irregularies that are just now appearing. As you like to say, take a breath and wait for the investigation to determine who is actually behind it. I also don't see how registration irregularies automatically translates into voter fraud. What it can translate into, however, serious pre-election polling problems. If pollsters assume more Democrats in their models, the numbers could easily and inaccurately skew to the Democrat. The fine print of most of the polling data I've seen does show that pollsters presume Democrats, then Independents, then Republicans. Seems odd to make these assumptions when finding a proper universe from which to sample. Anyway, chill out on the Hillary bashing. Don't be surprised if the pollsters are way off (they blew several in the primaries, as you will recall), and chill out on the Hillary bashing. Last I checked, she stopped running late last Spring.
Carl Nyberg
· 1 year ago
If a county clerk receives an unsigned voter registration form, what's s/he do with it?
It seems to me that unsigned forms received sufficiently before the deadline should be sent back to the address with a letter explaining the form needs to be signed.
If the form is for a fictional person and it's signed, the person signing the form is legally responsible.
The Republicans are complaining up a storm about defects in voter registration processes.
There's a simple way to end problems with voter registration. There are states, like Wisconsin, Minnesota and North Dakota (IIRC) that are exempt for the requirements of the National Voter Registration Act of 1993 because they have same-day registration.
If Republicans insist on whining about people working on commission registering non-existent voters then let's go to a simple same-day registration system.
This will keep groups from hiring people to register voters. And there will be no voter registration fraud.
But the Republicans don't really want to fix the process. They want something to whine about and to raise the specter of Black, Latino and low income voters "stealing" elections for Democrats.
Rich Miller
· 1 year ago
phocion, your point about polling makes absolutely no sense.
Rob_N
· 1 year ago
That dead goldfish is destroying the very fabric of our democracy I say! Throw that un-American terra'ist-swimmin' Carassius auratus character in the slammer til it rots.
....Couldn't resist. ;)
Rob_N
· 1 year ago
Carl,
You forgot Goldfish. They don't want Goldfish "stealing" elections for Dems either.
Anon
· 1 year ago
===For example, there are two recent stories of Republican registration fraud, and, beyond the appropriate actions taking place, no one is making a big deal about them.===
Registering voters as Republicans? That only effects primaries, because only registered party members can vote in a party's primary in California. And the head of a voter registration registering himself so that he can "legally" collect signatures? That's all that you have?
Compared to filing a petition in court in the name of a dead man to keep polls open in St. Louis, these are big nothings. (And even that trick didn't really implicate the integrity of the election, which is the purpose of all this.)
And registering a goldfish IS serious because a human could show up and try to vote under that registration, which would undermine the integrity of the election. And you can be sure the goldfish won't complain, even if it were still alive.
doubtful
· 1 year ago
If the GOP does something, it’s the end of the world; if the Democrats do the same thing, ho hum. -Excessively rabid
Reread my previous comment on this article. Registration fraud is not a partisan or new, and the Democrats are not making a big deal about it.
Only one of the presidential candidates mentioned it in the third debate, and erroneously claimed ACORN was "on the verge of maybe perpetrating one of the greatest frauds in voter history ... maybe destroying the fabric of democracy."
If that's not over-the-top rhetoric, I don't know what is.
It would certainly be nice if people, regardless of ideology or station, would remain grounded on this issue. I know, I guess, that's asking too much from some.
Louis G. Atsaves
· 1 year ago
Cluttering up registration rolls with phony names and addresses (even names of pets) isn't really fraudulent activity? It is clear from Rich's carefully researched article that this group used language designed to get people to act, thinking that it they did not they would somehow not be registered, or that something was wrong. That is not some slip up, a goof, an oops! Such language usage and robo calls were deliberate activities, not mistaken ones that were filled with good intentions.
Why should the Lake County Clerk or clerks throughout the country have to winnow out the illegitimate voters from the legitimate ones because of the behavior of such groups? No, I don't expect a goldfish to vote and get past an election judge, unless the goldfish applies for an absentee ballot, but why can't we take such nonsense more seriously?
In Lake County we have dead people signing petitions for candidacies, pets registering to vote and other such nonsense. Last night I saw mailers for three different Democratic candidates for County Board claiming that high property taxes were the fault of the "Lake County Assessor" who is "controlled" by the Republican board members. All mailers came out of Chicago/Cook County.
You would think those candidates would know enough about the assessment process in Lake County to figure out the mistakes in their own mailers? Or figure out how property taxes are assessed in Lake County as compared to Cook County? Or were they deliberately telling fibs about the process in their mailings?
Two more weeks and all this nonsense will be over. For this cycle, anyway!
Rich Miller
· 1 year ago
===And registering a goldfish IS serious because a human could show up and try to vote under that registration===
I want you to reread that comment after the election is over and everyone has cooled out.
doubtful
· 1 year ago
That’s all that you have? -Anon
Tricking people into registering because they think they're signing a petition to toughen penalties for child molesters and illegally registering to skirt the law, and you dismiss it with the wave of a hand. Shameful.
You act as if I was absolving the existence of one by presenting the example of another. I wasn't; I was merely saying it wasn't relegated to one party.
I happen to think they're all wrong; they're all examples of registration fraud; and not a single one will have an effect on the election.
Jake from Elwood
· 1 year ago
Ms. Helander is a responsible elected official pointing out the clear-cut flaws in the mail-in registration system. She is right to point out this tomfoolery. I find her "rhetoric" to be appropriate. However, her office will be ultimately responsible to ensure that these compromised and/or dubious registered voters are purged from the system and no opportunity for voter fraud is permitted to occur. Please do not place these types of decisions in the hands of underpaid and undertrained election judges on Nov. 4th. Please.
Judgment Day Is On The Way
· 1 year ago
Helander has it exactly right on this issue. If these people pulling this nonsense worked in the corporate sector, there would be tons and tons of investigations - and probably all sorts of civil lawsuits, if not criminal charges.
On this one, since it's occurring in the political world, it's "No Harm, No Foul".
Wrong. Both scarce resources and time are being wasted by these people who are trying to game the System. And they are succeeding at doing it. They should be treated the exact same way the Enron executives were treated - welcome to jail time.
Be a fast end to all the voter registration game playing going on once that happened a few times.
Pot calling kettle
· 1 year ago
On the mail in voter registration form: "If you do not have a driver’s license, State Identification Card or social security number, and this form is submitted by mail, and you have never registered to vote in the jurisdiction you are now registering in, then you must send, with this application, either (i) a copy of a current and valid photo identification, or (ii) a copy of a current utility bill, bank statement, government check, paycheck, or other government document that shows the name and address of the voter. If you do not provide the information required above, then you will be required to provide election officials with either (i)or (ii) described above the first time you vote at a voting place or by absentee ballot."
It is not rocket science to check the forms and ID either at the County Clerk's office or at the polling place. In fact, the only reason this issue has made the news (in Lake Co. or with ACORN) is because it is being caught.
Having said that, voter fraud occurs every election, and will continue to recur as long as people vote. There is no perfect system. I would guess that fraudulent voting probably mimics the overall voting and has a minimal impact.
IAmWomanHearMeRoar
· 1 year ago
For the very first time in my life, I am embarrassed to be a woman. Who ARE these people?
Captain America
· 1 year ago
I have personally registered thousands of voters -on a volunteer basis. I'm fairly familiar with the process. We started using motor voter forms in the 2000 election simply because so many people on the Chicago lakefront walk around without proof of address, not without proof of identity.
I see very little or no possibility of vote fraud actually occurring. Mickey Mouse, Donald Duck, Princess the Fish, or whoever are not going to show up and actually vote. If fictitious names and addresses are used, the post office will return the voter ID card to the election authorities, which would also lead to flagging the registration for scrutiny at the polling place.
If election authorities are unable to verify the identity of the person registering via the motor voter form, from information on the motor voter card (e.g.,Illinois Drivers License/State ID Number or last 4 digits of the Social Security Number, or prior registration at another Illinois address), then election authorities should/do instruct judges to request proof of identity/address when the person shows up to vote. It's completely routine! It's not hard to flag any questionable registrations for special attention from the judges at the polling place. Some of the ridiculous pseudonyms can be screened out in advance.
So if someone shows up and tries to vote under these pseudonyms, they have to produce proof of identification and proof of address in order to vote. It's not happening/going to happen!
Voters in jurisdictions with same day registration are required to prove who they are and where they live before registering and befere voting.
I thnk the main problem is that various organizations are paying/creating financial incentives/setting productivity standards that lead paid registrars to create false registrations, simply to earn more money, not to actually perpetrate vote fraud.
Corpses are not voting anymore, but I will concede that they did so in the distant past.
I am in fact from Missouri - "show me" fraudulent voting, and then I'll be ready to concede that a significant incidence of actual vote fraud is occurring/has occurred. It's not!! Otherwise, my conclusion is that vote fraud is a myth perpetrated by Republicans interested in suppressing the vote. Reoublicans don't like it when more poor people and minorities register and vote. Republcians fought motor voter laws tooth and nail - in illinos they had to be sued to force compliance with the federal motor voter law.
I agreee wholeheartedly than anyone who intentionally commits voter fraud individually or in a conspiracy with others should be prosecuted and imprisoned.
EmptySuitExpress
· 1 year ago
Williard --- get your head around her name for a sec --- has been into voter suppression for years. She once tried to get the Lake Co Sheriff (then a GOP) to pinch) Cong. Jackson at a church while talking about registration. I believe she also helped Blinky Jim Edgar try to stop Motor Voter in IL. Another proud GOP moment Maybe this fresh attention will get the US Atty sniffing around that office.
Ken in Aurora
· 1 year ago
"Goldfish don’t vote. Not even dead ones."
They probably couldn't do worse than some voters!
Will
· 1 year ago
There are no modern cases in Illinois of anyone being shown to have voted with a fake name after registering to vote multiple times. But, in every single election I have personally seen people who are disenfranchised because we have needless bureaucratic barriers to voting rights and no election-day registration. I've seen people told to go to another precinct where they still aren't allowed to vote or are told to cast a provisional ballot that will likely not be counted. Jim Edgar's stubborn opposition to motor voter laws is one of the most shameful things this state has done in the last 30 years. I'm very skeptical of anyone who uses the bogeyman of fraudulent registrations as an excuse to start making voting more difficult again.
The article says: "Our system does not provide safeguards to protect the voters," Helander said. "[Voters] deserve to know the quality of voter registration efforts." ... "We need to know that everyone who casts a vote is a bona-fide voter."
Actually, the system does have safeguards. Verifying registration applications is part of the job of the county clerk. Maybe the Lake County clerk should do the job he was elected to do instead of trying to lend credibility to a national Republican voter suppression effort.
Phil Collins
· 1 year ago
Will said, "Maybe the Lake County clerk should do the job he was elected to do instead of trying to lend credibility to a national Republican voter suppression effort." Willard Helander is a lady.
In 2001, I met a 95 year-old man who said that he voted for FDR five times. I said, "He only ran four times." He said, "I voted for him five times, on the same day. I went to five different precincts. They won't let me do that anymore."
Cheswick
· 1 year ago
Much of this sounds like kids or pranksters trying to see if they could jerk someone around. If so, it worked.
Captain America
· 1 year ago
I recall one high profile incident in 2004, where a paid Republican consultant was caught intentionally discarding Democratic registrations. Sorry I can't recall specific details, but I have no reason to cloud this discussion with false information.
Synstematically purging large numbers of minority voters, without any notice or opportunity to appeal, on grounds that they might have been felons, should also be considered vote fraud. It happened in Florida in 2000.
So vote fraud/supression is a many spelendored-thing indeed.
VanillaMan
· 1 year ago
==I recall one high profile incident... I can’t recall specific details...
It happened in Florida in 2000.
So vote fraud/supression is a many spelendored-thing indeed.=
You aren't sure, but you are sure that Republicans are somehow behind voter suppression and stole the 2000 election.
Sure, you know what you are talking about.
True Observer
· 1 year ago
"anon89, how does sending in a voter registration card for a goldfish qualify as stealing an election?
Take a deep breath."
How quaint to act the innocent.
The goldfish wont vote, but some Democratic ward healer will vote for it if he can get away with it.
The trouble is, after the elction is certified, no one really cares what happened.
Rich Miller
· 1 year ago
===The goldfish wont vote, but some Democratic ward healer will vote for it if he can get away with it.===
TO, read the stories above.
Not gonna happen.
Doggone
· 1 year ago
Mendoza is a turncoat and should be ashamed of supporting Republicans. It's time for true Democrats to oust Medoza in a Democrat primary race.
VanillaMan
· 1 year ago
Bipartisanship and Republican support in Chicago? Get those blinders back on Mendoza! For us, it is forever 1958!
Carl Nyberg
· 1 year ago
Republican Party officials removed about 96,000 African-Americans from the voting rolls in Florida in preparation for the 2000 election. This was accomplished through removing everyone who had a name or birthday sufficiently close (not an exact match) to any convicted felon anywhere in the United States.
Less than 150 Latinos were removed during the same purge. In Florida Latino are mostly Cubanos who mostly vote Republican.
After the election the flawed methodology was exposed (although not covered widely in the traditional media) and the properly registered voters were added to the voting rolls again. Of course, it was too late for them to vote in the 2000 election. And no one was ever prosecuted by the Bush Justice Department (or Florida state gov't) for disenfranchising these Floridians.
So, VanillaMan, now you know the story.
Captain America
· 1 year ago
Van Man,
I'm no longer contesting the results of the 2000 election. The U.S. Supreme Court negated that option.
You could look it up. The haphazard "felon purge" in Florida is common knowledge - it a matter of public record, not a figment of my demented left wing imagination.
Another example of intended voter suppression: In 2004, the Ohio Secreatary of State, Ken Blackwell, tried to exclude all legitimate voter registrations that were printed on a piece of paper downloaded off a computer or simply photocopied, instead of on a motor voter card that had a specific thickness. Of course, he didn't get away with his plan - he was sued and had to relent.
Republican registration officials in Virginia deliberately tried to confuse students by informing them that registering in Virginia would cause them legal complications or jeopardize their scholarships/financial aid (2008). Now I wonder why certain Republican election officials in Virginia might want to discourage student civic participation/voting when the Supreme Court says students are entitled to vote at their college address if they choose to do so?
The flip side of wildly-exaggerated voter fraud allagations is voter suppression.
VanillaMan
· 1 year ago
It is insulting to make any claims that Ken Blackwell intended to suppress voters.
These ridiculous claims were investigated and quickly uncovered to be partisan silliness and sour grapes.
It is wrong to regurgitate these unfounded smears.
VanillaMan
· 1 year ago
==VMan, what “massive federal entitlement programs†did FDR create?==
Sheesh!
wordslinger
· 1 year ago
There was a lot of alphabet soup in the New Deal, but I don't recall SHEESH.
Would it be too insulting to regurgitate an answer?
Captain America
· 1 year ago
Van Man
Name: Nathan Sproul Consultant Lincoln Strategies
Place Calfornia
Guess who's working for John McCain's campaign?- The consultant who allagedly destroyed Democratic voter registrations in 2004.
Visit the Huffington Post Web Site if you dare and read the following story: "McCain Employs GOP Operative Accused of Voter Registration Fraud."
Van Man visiting the Hufffington Post Web site might give you a nervous breakdown, given your delicate sensibilities. But since you challenged the origanal validity of my vague recollection, read it and weep!
doubtful
· 1 year ago
"It is insulting to make any claims that Ken Blackwell intended to suppress voters." -VanillaMan
You can chose to be insulted by that fiction.
I prefer to be insulted by the deliberate voting inequities in Ohio in 2004. "After the election, local political activists seeking a recount analyzed how Franklin County officials distributed voting machines. They found that 27 of the 30 wards with the most machines per registered voter showed majorities for Bush." "In Knox County, some Kenyon College students waited 10 hours to vote. "They had to skip classes and skip work," said Matthew Segal, a 19-year-old student." "In Youngstown, 25 electronic machines transferred an unknown number of votes for Sen. John F. Kerry (D-Mass.) to the Bush column."
Long lines waiting for too few voting machines. Long time voters scrubbed from the rolls. Machines actually switching votes.
But no, nothing to be insulted by there. Unfounded smears. Sheesh. :)
Rich Miller
· 1 year ago
I thought Blackwell was that fashion guy who just died.
How about we not focus on esoterica.
Ela Observer
· 1 year ago
This from the AP, today ... "A Republican official in Lake County wants to require some voters to show IDs if voter registration problems are clustered in certain precincts. Lake County Clerk Willard Helander on Monday said she's asked the state's attorney if that could be done legally." http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=news/l...
Helander's presser last week was less about suffrage for goldfish -- and more about laying the groundwork for a Republican voter suppression effort in Lake County.
In 2004, the Lake County Coroner was decided by 900 votes. A Lake County Board seat was decided by 36 votes.
In 2006, a State Rep seat and a County Board seat were decided by 900 votes. Another County Board seat was decided by 300 votes. Two more were decided by 100 votes.
In 2008, Kirk vs Seals may well turn on how Lake County votes. Everyone is expecting Nov 4 to be a long night in Lake County.
some former legislative intern
· 1 year ago
Rich: Women's Voices Women's Votes is a project started by EMILY's List. They sent one of these forms to my Mom, who is 66 years old and has been registered to vote since she was 21. Obviously, she was not an unregistered, single woman voter these people were targeting.
Anyhow, the form looked so bad, was so poorly done, and looked so phoney that my dad (who was a support staffer for HDems for 11 years) thought it was some kind of fraud and was ready to call the authorities.
So they called me and had me look at it, and I also had concerns until I saw it was Women's Voices/Women's Votes.
I am still on the e-mail list of EMILY's even though the last time I gave to the organization was in 2000. I stopped because I later saw that EMILY had given Sara Feigenholtz $1000 for a general election. After that, I never gave them another dime because what the heck does Feigenholtz need $1000 for a general election? I thought my contributions to the organization itself, beyond the money you give to selected races they highlight for you, was going to Democratic women candidates in targeted districts.
Clearly, EMILYs or WVWV did not mean to cause any problems or try and disenfranchise anyone. I do think they really, really screwed up by being overly aggressive in their registration efforts. Having been involved in such drives myself, I understand their goals, but no one over there sat down and thought this whole thing through. Now they have handed the Republicans another phony "Democratic liberal voter fraud" allegation that we will have to hear about over and over and over until election day. Sigh.
Pot calling kettle
· 1 year ago
Finding stories about the Sproul affair from 2004 is as easy as a web search. It took place in Washington & Oregon and was pretty well documented. Additional allegations were made regarding registration irregularities in other states.
It's especially interesting when you consider that ACORN is getting grief for turning in registrations for Mickey Mouse because they are required by law to turn in all completed forms. The Sproul folks are accused of doing the opposite: sorting through the forms and sending in only likely Republican voters. Maybe someday the Dem supporters will learn to sort through the forms as well.
All Comments
"Fido's not going to be left on there, but if a cat is named is Polly, she may be," Johnson said. Princess could be a person's name, she insisted. "I went to high school with two Princesses."
That made me chuckle. I think we all went to high school with some princesses!
I think it's unfortunate with all of the news related to attempted registration fraud that the general media hasn't done a better job of explaining it, and frankly McCain's hyperbolic rhetoric regarding ACORN in the last debate wasn't accurate or helpful either.
Any rational person knows that Mickey Mouse's registration won't be approved, nor will Mr. Mouse show up on election day and try to vote.
And if he does, well, he can always fill out a provisional ballot.
The worst part is the unnecessary waste erroneous registrations create.
What will compromise the integrity of the election is if the county clerk doesn't do her job in making sure that registrations are valid BEFORE the election, which is what she is charged with doing. Sounds like someone is employing a little pre-emptive CYA action to me.
When dems steal an election its all good. Ends justify the means.
Take a deep breath.
County Clerk Willard Helander (with support of the Lake County Republican Party) are playing defense. Schedule a dog-and-pony-show presser. Play it all up as if someone actually tried to register a goldfish.
We have had people show up to early vote wearing dozens of Obama buttons. We have had people calling the election office looking for yard signs and getting upset when the election commission doesn't have them. (Like several calls in one day spaced almost exactly 15 minutes apart).
Other stupid stuff to, it's like everyone has turned it up to 11 this time around.
Name the organization, and you see a fully funded, often by us, sub-group that focuses on registering the "right" kind of voters to help keep the entitlements these organizations live off of, surviving the swings of voter's whims.
Everyone is playing this game.
When FDR created massive federal entitlement programs, he set off a chain reaction whereby special interest groups joined lobbyists in demanding a share of our money. Good or bad, this now results in voter registration drives to keep the entitlements coming and these organization's spot at the trough open.
What we are seeing this year is open abuse of voter registration procedures. Since this summer, we have watched these groups' efforts turn malignant. Worse, we are seeing our presidential election threatened by these groups actions in swing states.
You thought 2000 was a stolen election? You thought 2004 was also stolen? Then perhaps you feel justified in stretching the law until you think it will get you the results you want. We are seeing groups of people disinterested in maintaining any semblance of election integrity, and only interested in an election result, regardless of means of attaining that result.
This is jeopardizing our entire system.
People are not as stupid as these groups are claiming they are. With every US Census, we again witness special interest groups claiming that they people they represent are too stupid to follow simple directions so that we must allow any results to be manipulated to ensure "fairness" and their version of "accuracy". Instead of objective results, these groups are pushing us to accept subjective results based on their predetermined subjectivity.
We may see laws changes so that we may be losing the ability to vote early. With the perception of rampant fraud spreading throughout the US, any election result that is not a landslide in popular vote, will be seen as tainted.
And that corrupts our entire system.
The facts on the ground don't support you hyperventilating.
For example, there are two recent stories of Republican registration fraud, and, beyond the appropriate actions taking place, no one is making a big deal about them.
Certainly if you feel that the fraud perpetrated upon ACORN by a handful of their employees warrants justice department intervention than intellectual consistency demands you also believe Diebold should have been investigated in 2004 when the CEO of the company promised to deliver the election to George Bush, right? ;)
Well, at least not in the suburbs...now in 1960 Chicago in the River wards, it was a different story.
Well, at least not in the suburbs...now in 1960 Chicago in the River wards, it was a different story.
The Lake County Clerk simply needs to make sure her election judges follow the law.
It seems to me that unsigned forms received sufficiently before the deadline should be sent back to the address with a letter explaining the form needs to be signed.
If the form is for a fictional person and it's signed, the person signing the form is legally responsible.
The Republicans are complaining up a storm about defects in voter registration processes.
There's a simple way to end problems with voter registration. There are states, like Wisconsin, Minnesota and North Dakota (IIRC) that are exempt for the requirements of the National Voter Registration Act of 1993 because they have same-day registration.
If Republicans insist on whining about people working on commission registering non-existent voters then let's go to a simple same-day registration system.
This will keep groups from hiring people to register voters. And there will be no voter registration fraud.
But the Republicans don't really want to fix the process. They want something to whine about and to raise the specter of Black, Latino and low income voters "stealing" elections for Democrats.
....Couldn't resist. ;)
You forgot Goldfish. They don't want Goldfish "stealing" elections for Dems either.
Registering voters as Republicans? That only effects primaries, because only registered party members can vote in a party's primary in California. And the head of a voter registration registering himself so that he can "legally" collect signatures? That's all that you have?
Compared to filing a petition in court in the name of a dead man to keep polls open in St. Louis, these are big nothings. (And even that trick didn't really implicate the integrity of the election, which is the purpose of all this.)
And registering a goldfish IS serious because a human could show up and try to vote under that registration, which would undermine the integrity of the election. And you can be sure the goldfish won't complain, even if it were still alive.
Reread my previous comment on this article. Registration fraud is not a partisan or new, and the Democrats are not making a big deal about it.
Only one of the presidential candidates mentioned it in the third debate, and erroneously claimed ACORN was "on the verge of maybe perpetrating one of the greatest frauds in voter history ... maybe destroying the fabric of democracy."
If that's not over-the-top rhetoric, I don't know what is.
It would certainly be nice if people, regardless of ideology or station, would remain grounded on this issue. I know, I guess, that's asking too much from some.
Why should the Lake County Clerk or clerks throughout the country have to winnow out the illegitimate voters from the legitimate ones because of the behavior of such groups? No, I don't expect a goldfish to vote and get past an election judge, unless the goldfish applies for an absentee ballot, but why can't we take such nonsense more seriously?
In Lake County we have dead people signing petitions for candidacies, pets registering to vote and other such nonsense. Last night I saw mailers for three different Democratic candidates for County Board claiming that high property taxes were the fault of the "Lake County Assessor" who is "controlled" by the Republican board members. All mailers came out of Chicago/Cook County.
You would think those candidates would know enough about the assessment process in Lake County to figure out the mistakes in their own mailers? Or figure out how property taxes are assessed in Lake County as compared to Cook County? Or were they deliberately telling fibs about the process in their mailings?
Two more weeks and all this nonsense will be over. For this cycle, anyway!
I want you to reread that comment after the election is over and everyone has cooled out.
Tricking people into registering because they think they're signing a petition to toughen penalties for child molesters and illegally registering to skirt the law, and you dismiss it with the wave of a hand. Shameful.
You act as if I was absolving the existence of one by presenting the example of another. I wasn't; I was merely saying it wasn't relegated to one party.
I happen to think they're all wrong; they're all examples of registration fraud; and not a single one will have an effect on the election.
However, her office will be ultimately responsible to ensure that these compromised and/or dubious registered voters are purged from the system and no opportunity for voter fraud is permitted to occur.
Please do not place these types of decisions in the hands of underpaid and undertrained election judges on Nov. 4th. Please.
On this one, since it's occurring in the political world, it's "No Harm, No Foul".
Wrong. Both scarce resources and time are being wasted by these people who are trying to game the System. And they are succeeding at doing it. They should be treated the exact same way the Enron executives were treated - welcome to jail time.
Be a fast end to all the voter registration game playing going on once that happened a few times.
It is not rocket science to check the forms and ID either at the County Clerk's office or at the polling place. In fact, the only reason this issue has made the news (in Lake Co. or with ACORN) is because it is being caught.
Having said that, voter fraud occurs every election, and will continue to recur as long as people vote. There is no perfect system. I would guess that fraudulent voting probably mimics the overall voting and has a minimal impact.
I see very little or no possibility of vote fraud actually occurring. Mickey Mouse, Donald Duck, Princess the Fish, or whoever are not going to show up and actually vote. If fictitious names and addresses are used, the post office will return the voter ID card to the election authorities, which would also lead to flagging the registration for scrutiny at the polling place.
If election authorities are unable to verify the identity of the person registering via the motor voter form, from information on the motor voter card (e.g.,Illinois Drivers License/State ID Number or last 4 digits of the Social Security Number, or prior registration at another Illinois address), then election authorities should/do instruct judges to request proof of identity/address when the person shows up to vote. It's completely routine! It's not hard to flag any questionable registrations for special attention from the judges at the polling place. Some of the ridiculous pseudonyms can be screened out in advance.
So if someone shows up and tries to vote under these pseudonyms, they have to produce proof of identification and proof of address in order to vote. It's not happening/going to happen!
Voters in jurisdictions with same day registration are required to prove who they are and where they live before registering and befere voting.
I thnk the main problem is that various organizations are paying/creating financial incentives/setting productivity standards that lead paid registrars to create false registrations, simply to earn more money, not to actually perpetrate vote fraud.
Corpses are not voting anymore, but I will concede that they did so in the distant past.
I am in fact from Missouri - "show me" fraudulent voting, and then I'll be ready to concede that a significant incidence of actual vote fraud is occurring/has occurred. It's not!! Otherwise, my conclusion is that vote fraud is a myth perpetrated by Republicans interested in suppressing the vote. Reoublicans don't like it when more poor people and minorities register and vote. Republcians fought motor voter laws tooth and nail - in illinos they had to be sued to force compliance with the federal motor voter law.
I agreee wholeheartedly than anyone who intentionally commits voter fraud individually or in a conspiracy with others should be prosecuted and imprisoned.
I believe she also helped Blinky Jim Edgar try to stop Motor Voter in IL.
Another proud GOP moment
Maybe this fresh attention will get the US Atty sniffing around that office.
They probably couldn't do worse than some voters!
The article says: "Our system does not provide safeguards to protect the voters," Helander said. "[Voters] deserve to know the quality of voter registration efforts." ... "We need to know that everyone who casts a vote is a bona-fide voter."
Actually, the system does have safeguards. Verifying registration applications is part of the job of the county clerk. Maybe the Lake County clerk should do the job he was elected to do instead of trying to lend credibility to a national Republican voter suppression effort.
In 2001, I met a 95 year-old man who said that he voted for FDR five times. I said, "He only ran four times." He said, "I voted for him five times, on the same day. I went to five different precincts. They won't let me do that anymore."
Synstematically purging large numbers of minority voters, without any notice or opportunity to appeal, on grounds that they might have been felons, should also be considered vote fraud. It happened in Florida in 2000.
So vote fraud/supression is a many spelendored-thing indeed.
It happened in Florida in 2000.
So vote fraud/supression is a many spelendored-thing indeed.=
You aren't sure, but you are sure that Republicans are somehow behind voter suppression and stole the 2000 election.
Sure, you know what you are talking about.
Take a deep breath."
How quaint to act the innocent.
The goldfish wont vote, but some Democratic ward healer will vote for it if he can get away with it.
The trouble is, after the elction is certified, no one really cares what happened.
TO, read the stories above.
Not gonna happen.
Less than 150 Latinos were removed during the same purge. In Florida Latino are mostly Cubanos who mostly vote Republican.
After the election the flawed methodology was exposed (although not covered widely in the traditional media) and the properly registered voters were added to the voting rolls again. Of course, it was too late for them to vote in the 2000 election. And no one was ever prosecuted by the Bush Justice Department (or Florida state gov't) for disenfranchising these Floridians.
So, VanillaMan, now you know the story.
I'm no longer contesting the results of the 2000 election. The U.S. Supreme Court negated that option.
You could look it up. The haphazard "felon purge" in Florida is common knowledge - it a matter of public record, not a figment of my demented left wing imagination.
Another example of intended voter suppression: In 2004, the Ohio Secreatary of State, Ken Blackwell, tried to exclude all legitimate voter registrations that were printed on a piece of paper downloaded off a computer or simply photocopied, instead of on a motor voter card that had a specific thickness. Of course, he didn't get away with his plan - he was sued and had to relent.
Republican registration officials in Virginia deliberately tried to confuse students by informing them that registering in Virginia would cause them legal complications or jeopardize their scholarships/financial aid (2008). Now I wonder why certain Republican election officials in Virginia might want to discourage student civic participation/voting when the Supreme Court says students are entitled to vote at their college address if they choose to do so?
The flip side of wildly-exaggerated voter fraud allagations is voter suppression.
These ridiculous claims were investigated and quickly uncovered to be partisan silliness and sour grapes.
It is wrong to regurgitate these unfounded smears.
Sheesh!
Would it be too insulting to regurgitate an answer?
Name: Nathan Sproul Consultant
Lincoln Strategies
Place Calfornia
Guess who's working for John McCain's campaign?- The consultant who allagedly destroyed Democratic voter registrations in 2004.
Visit the Huffington Post Web Site if you dare and read the following story: "McCain Employs GOP Operative Accused of Voter Registration Fraud."
Van Man visiting the Hufffington Post Web site might give you a nervous breakdown, given your delicate sensibilities. But since you challenged the origanal validity of my vague recollection, read it and weep!
You can chose to be insulted by that fiction.
I prefer to be insulted by the deliberate voting inequities in Ohio in 2004.
"After the election, local political activists seeking a recount analyzed how Franklin County officials distributed voting machines. They found that 27 of the 30 wards with the most machines per registered voter showed majorities for Bush."
"In Knox County, some Kenyon College students waited 10 hours to vote. "They had to skip classes and skip work," said Matthew Segal, a 19-year-old student."
"In Youngstown, 25 electronic machines transferred an unknown number of votes for Sen. John F. Kerry (D-Mass.) to the Bush column."
Long lines waiting for too few voting machines. Long time voters scrubbed from the rolls. Machines actually switching votes.
But no, nothing to be insulted by there. Unfounded smears. Sheesh. :)
How about we not focus on esoterica.
"A Republican official in Lake County wants to require some voters to show IDs if voter registration problems are clustered in certain precincts. Lake County Clerk Willard Helander on Monday said she's asked the state's attorney if that could be done legally."
http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=news/l...
Helander's presser last week was less about suffrage for goldfish -- and more about laying the groundwork for a Republican voter suppression effort in Lake County.
In 2004, the Lake County Coroner was decided by 900 votes. A Lake County Board seat was decided by 36 votes.
In 2006, a State Rep seat and a County Board seat were decided by 900 votes. Another County Board seat was decided by 300 votes. Two more were decided by 100 votes.
In 2008, Kirk vs Seals may well turn on how Lake County votes. Everyone is expecting Nov 4 to be a long night in Lake County.
Anyhow, the form looked so bad, was so poorly done, and looked so phoney that my dad (who was a support staffer for HDems for 11 years) thought it was some kind of fraud and was ready to call the authorities.
So they called me and had me look at it, and I also had concerns until I saw it was Women's Voices/Women's Votes.
I am still on the e-mail list of EMILY's even though the last time I gave to the organization was in 2000. I stopped because I later saw that EMILY had given Sara Feigenholtz $1000 for a general election. After that, I never gave them another dime because what the heck does Feigenholtz need $1000 for a general election? I thought my contributions to the organization itself, beyond the money you give to selected races they highlight for you, was going to Democratic women candidates in targeted districts.
Clearly, EMILYs or WVWV did not mean to cause any problems or try and disenfranchise anyone. I do think they really, really screwed up by being overly aggressive in their registration efforts. Having been involved in such drives myself, I understand their goals, but no one over there sat down and thought this whole thing through. Now they have handed the Republicans another phony "Democratic liberal voter fraud" allegation that we will have to hear about over and over and over until election day. Sigh.
It's especially interesting when you consider that ACORN is getting grief for turning in registrations for Mickey Mouse because they are required by law to turn in all completed forms. The Sproul folks are accused of doing the opposite: sorting through the forms and sending in only likely Republican voters. Maybe someday the Dem supporters will learn to sort through the forms as well.