CapitolFax.com - Latest Comments in Another massive screw-up by voter group

Re: Another massive screw-up by voter group

Pot calling kettle — Tue, 21 Oct 2008 18:40:53 -0000

Finding stories about the Sproul affair from 2004 is as easy as a web search. It took place in Washington & Oregon and was pretty well documented. Additional allegations were made regarding registration irregularities in other states.

It's especially interesting when you consider that ACORN is getting grief for turning in registrations for Mickey Mouse because they are required by law to turn in all completed forms. The Sproul folks are accused of doing the opposite: sorting through the forms and sending in only likely Republican voters. Maybe someday the Dem supporters will learn to sort through the forms as well.

Re: Another massive screw-up by voter group

some former legislative intern — Tue, 21 Oct 2008 18:15:09 -0000

Rich: Women's Voices Women's Votes is a project started by EMILY's List. They sent one of these forms to my Mom, who is 66 years old and has been registered to vote since she was 21. Obviously, she was not an unregistered, single woman voter these people were targeting.

Anyhow, the form looked so bad, was so poorly done, and looked so phoney that my dad (who was a support staffer for HDems for 11 years) thought it was some kind of fraud and was ready to call the authorities.

So they called me and had me look at it, and I also had concerns until I saw it was Women's Voices/Women's Votes.

I am still on the e-mail list of EMILY's even though the last time I gave to the organization was in 2000. I stopped because I later saw that EMILY had given Sara Feigenholtz $1000 for a general election. After that, I never gave them another dime because what the heck does Feigenholtz need $1000 for a general election? I thought my contributions to the organization itself, beyond the money you give to selected races they highlight for you, was going to Democratic women candidates in targeted districts.

Clearly, EMILYs or WVWV did not mean to cause any problems or try and disenfranchise anyone. I do think they really, really screwed up by being overly aggressive in their registration efforts. Having been involved in such drives myself, I understand their goals, but no one over there sat down and thought this whole thing through. Now they have handed the Republicans another phony "Democratic liberal voter fraud" allegation that we will have to hear about over and over and over until election day. Sigh.

Re: Another massive screw-up by voter group

Ela Observer — Tue, 21 Oct 2008 17:42:01 -0000

This from the AP, today ...
"A Republican official in Lake County wants to require some voters to show IDs if voter registration problems are clustered in certain precincts. Lake County Clerk Willard Helander on Monday said she's asked the state's attorney if that could be done legally."
http://abclocal.go.com/wls/...

Helander's presser last week was less about suffrage for goldfish -- and more about laying the groundwork for a Republican voter suppression effort in Lake County.

In 2004, the Lake County Coroner was decided by 900 votes. A Lake County Board seat was decided by 36 votes.

In 2006, a State Rep seat and a County Board seat were decided by 900 votes. Another County Board seat was decided by 300 votes. Two more were decided by 100 votes.

In 2008, Kirk vs Seals may well turn on how Lake County votes. Everyone is expecting Nov 4 to be a long night in Lake County.

Re: Another massive screw-up by voter group

Rich Miller — Tue, 21 Oct 2008 17:08:39 -0000

I thought Blackwell was that fashion guy who just died.

How about we not focus on esoterica.

Re: Another massive screw-up by voter group

doubtful — Tue, 21 Oct 2008 17:05:33 -0000

"It is insulting to make any claims that Ken Blackwell intended to suppress voters." -VanillaMan

You can chose to be insulted by that fiction.

I prefer to be insulted by the deliberate voting inequities in Ohio in 2004.
"After the election, local political activists seeking a recount analyzed how Franklin County officials distributed voting machines. They found that 27 of the 30 wards with the most machines per registered voter showed majorities for Bush."
"In Knox County, some Kenyon College students waited 10 hours to vote. "They had to skip classes and skip work," said Matthew Segal, a 19-year-old student."
"In Youngstown, 25 electronic machines transferred an unknown number of votes for Sen. John F. Kerry (D-Mass.) to the Bush column."

Long lines waiting for too few voting machines. Long time voters scrubbed from the rolls. Machines actually switching votes.

But no, nothing to be insulted by there. Unfounded smears. Sheesh. :)

Re: Another massive screw-up by voter group

Captain America — Tue, 21 Oct 2008 16:51:25 -0000

Van Man

Name: Nathan Sproul Consultant
Lincoln Strategies

Place Calfornia

Guess who's working for John McCain's campaign?- The consultant who allagedly destroyed Democratic voter registrations in 2004.

Visit the Huffington Post Web Site if you dare and read the following story: "McCain Employs GOP Operative Accused of Voter Registration Fraud."

Van Man visiting the Hufffington Post Web site might give you a nervous breakdown, given your delicate sensibilities. But since you challenged the origanal validity of my vague recollection, read it and weep!

Re: Another massive screw-up by voter group

wordslinger — Tue, 21 Oct 2008 16:51:09 -0000

There was a lot of alphabet soup in the New Deal, but I don't recall SHEESH.

Would it be too insulting to regurgitate an answer?

Re: Another massive screw-up by voter group

VanillaMan — Tue, 21 Oct 2008 16:36:09 -0000

==VMan, what â€œmassive federal entitlement programsâ€ did FDR create?==

Sheesh!

Re: Another massive screw-up by voter group

VanillaMan — Tue, 21 Oct 2008 16:33:38 -0000

It is insulting to make any claims that Ken Blackwell intended to suppress voters.

These ridiculous claims were investigated and quickly uncovered to be partisan silliness and sour grapes.

It is wrong to regurgitate these unfounded smears.

Re: Another massive screw-up by voter group

Captain America — Tue, 21 Oct 2008 16:21:02 -0000

Van Man,

I'm no longer contesting the results of the 2000 election. The U.S. Supreme Court negated that option.

You could look it up. The haphazard "felon purge" in Florida is common knowledge - it a matter of public record, not a figment of my demented left wing imagination.

Another example of intended voter suppression: In 2004, the Ohio Secreatary of State, Ken Blackwell, tried to exclude all legitimate voter registrations that were printed on a piece of paper downloaded off a computer or simply photocopied, instead of on a motor voter card that had a specific thickness. Of course, he didn't get away with his plan - he was sued and had to relent.

Republican registration officials in Virginia deliberately tried to confuse students by informing them that registering in Virginia would cause them legal complications or jeopardize their scholarships/financial aid (2008). Now I wonder why certain Republican election officials in Virginia might want to discourage student civic participation/voting when the Supreme Court says students are entitled to vote at their college address if they choose to do so?

The flip side of wildly-exaggerated voter fraud allagations is voter suppression.

Re: Another massive screw-up by voter group

Carl Nyberg — Tue, 21 Oct 2008 16:00:33 -0000

Republican Party officials removed about 96,000 African-Americans from the voting rolls in Florida in preparation for the 2000 election. This was accomplished through removing everyone who had a name or birthday sufficiently close (not an exact match) to any convicted felon anywhere in the United States.

Less than 150 Latinos were removed during the same purge. In Florida Latino are mostly Cubanos who mostly vote Republican.

After the election the flawed methodology was exposed (although not covered widely in the traditional media) and the properly registered voters were added to the voting rolls again. Of course, it was too late for them to vote in the 2000 election. And no one was ever prosecuted by the Bush Justice Department (or Florida state gov't) for disenfranchising these Floridians.

So, VanillaMan, now you know the story.

Re: Another massive screw-up by voter group

VanillaMan — Tue, 21 Oct 2008 15:42:29 -0000

Bipartisanship and Republican support in Chicago? Get those blinders back on Mendoza! For us, it is forever 1958!

Re: Another massive screw-up by voter group

Doggone — Tue, 21 Oct 2008 15:32:10 -0000

Mendoza is a turncoat and should be ashamed of supporting Republicans. It's time for true Democrats to oust Medoza in a Democrat primary race.

Re: Another massive screw-up by voter group

Rich Miller — Tue, 21 Oct 2008 15:30:09 -0000

===The goldfish wont vote, but some Democratic ward healer will vote for it if he can get away with it.===

TO, read the stories above.

Not gonna happen.

Re: Another massive screw-up by voter group

True Observer — Tue, 21 Oct 2008 15:27:52 -0000

"anon89, how does sending in a voter registration card for a goldfish qualify as stealing an election?

Take a deep breath."

How quaint to act the innocent.

The goldfish wont vote, but some Democratic ward healer will vote for it if he can get away with it.

The trouble is, after the elction is certified, no one really cares what happened.

Re: Another massive screw-up by voter group

VanillaMan — Tue, 21 Oct 2008 15:27:39 -0000

==I recall one high profile incident... I canâ€™t recall specific details...

It happened in Florida in 2000.

So vote fraud/supression is a many spelendored-thing indeed.=

You aren't sure, but you are sure that Republicans are somehow behind voter suppression and stole the 2000 election.

Sure, you know what you are talking about.

Re: Another massive screw-up by voter group

Captain America — Tue, 21 Oct 2008 15:05:42 -0000

I recall one high profile incident in 2004, where a paid Republican consultant was caught intentionally discarding Democratic registrations. Sorry I can't recall specific details, but I have no reason to cloud this discussion with false information.

Synstematically purging large numbers of minority voters, without any notice or opportunity to appeal, on grounds that they might have been felons, should also be considered vote fraud. It happened in Florida in 2000.

So vote fraud/supression is a many spelendored-thing indeed.

Re: Another massive screw-up by voter group

Cheswick — Tue, 21 Oct 2008 14:52:16 -0000

Much of this sounds like kids or pranksters trying to see if they could jerk someone around. If so, it worked.

Re: Another massive screw-up by voter group

Phil Collins — Tue, 21 Oct 2008 14:35:43 -0000

Will said, "Maybe the Lake County clerk should do the job he was elected to do instead of trying to lend credibility to a national Republican voter suppression effort." Willard Helander is a lady.

In 2001, I met a 95 year-old man who said that he voted for FDR five times. I said, "He only ran four times." He said, "I voted for him five times, on the same day. I went to five different precincts. They won't let me do that anymore."

Re: Another massive screw-up by voter group

Will — Tue, 21 Oct 2008 14:30:12 -0000

There are no modern cases in Illinois of anyone being shown to have voted with a fake name after registering to vote multiple times. But, in every single election I have personally seen people who are disenfranchised because we have needless bureaucratic barriers to voting rights and no election-day registration. I've seen people told to go to another precinct where they still aren't allowed to vote or are told to cast a provisional ballot that will likely not be counted. Jim Edgar's stubborn opposition to motor voter laws is one of the most shameful things this state has done in the last 30 years. I'm very skeptical of anyone who uses the bogeyman of fraudulent registrations as an excuse to start making voting more difficult again.

The article says: "Our system does not provide safeguards to protect the voters," Helander said. "[Voters] deserve to know the quality of voter registration efforts." ... "We need to know that everyone who casts a vote is a bona-fide voter."

Actually, the system does have safeguards. Verifying registration applications is part of the job of the county clerk. Maybe the Lake County clerk should do the job he was elected to do instead of trying to lend credibility to a national Republican voter suppression effort.

Re: Another massive screw-up by voter group

Ken in Aurora — Tue, 21 Oct 2008 14:26:16 -0000

"Goldfish donâ€™t vote. Not even dead ones."

They probably couldn't do worse than some voters!

Re: Another massive screw-up by voter group

EmptySuitExpress — Tue, 21 Oct 2008 14:25:09 -0000

Williard --- get your head around her name for a sec --- has been into voter suppression for years. She once tried to get the Lake Co Sheriff (then a GOP) to pinch) Cong. Jackson at a church while talking about registration.
I believe she also helped Blinky Jim Edgar try to stop Motor Voter in IL.
Another proud GOP moment
Maybe this fresh attention will get the US Atty sniffing around that office.

Re: Another massive screw-up by voter group

Captain America — Tue, 21 Oct 2008 14:18:33 -0000

I have personally registered thousands of voters -on a volunteer basis. I'm fairly familiar with the process. We started using motor voter forms in the 2000 election simply because so many people on the Chicago lakefront walk around without proof of address, not without proof of identity.

I see very little or no possibility of vote fraud actually occurring. Mickey Mouse, Donald Duck, Princess the Fish, or whoever are not going to show up and actually vote. If fictitious names and addresses are used, the post office will return the voter ID card to the election authorities, which would also lead to flagging the registration for scrutiny at the polling place.

If election authorities are unable to verify the identity of the person registering via the motor voter form, from information on the motor voter card (e.g.,Illinois Drivers License/State ID Number or last 4 digits of the Social Security Number, or prior registration at another Illinois address), then election authorities should/do instruct judges to request proof of identity/address when the person shows up to vote. It's completely routine! It's not hard to flag any questionable registrations for special attention from the judges at the polling place. Some of the ridiculous pseudonyms can be screened out in advance.

So if someone shows up and tries to vote under these pseudonyms, they have to produce proof of identification and proof of address in order to vote. It's not happening/going to happen!

Voters in jurisdictions with same day registration are required to prove who they are and where they live before registering and befere voting.

I thnk the main problem is that various organizations are paying/creating financial incentives/setting productivity standards that lead paid registrars to create false registrations, simply to earn more money, not to actually perpetrate vote fraud.

Corpses are not voting anymore, but I will concede that they did so in the distant past.

I am in fact from Missouri - "show me" fraudulent voting, and then I'll be ready to concede that a significant incidence of actual vote fraud is occurring/has occurred. It's not!! Otherwise, my conclusion is that vote fraud is a myth perpetrated by Republicans interested in suppressing the vote. Reoublicans don't like it when more poor people and minorities register and vote. Republcians fought motor voter laws tooth and nail - in illinos they had to be sued to force compliance with the federal motor voter law.

I agreee wholeheartedly than anyone who intentionally commits voter fraud individually or in a conspiracy with others should be prosecuted and imprisoned.

Re: Another massive screw-up by voter group

IAmWomanHearMeRoar — Tue, 21 Oct 2008 14:15:57 -0000

For the very first time in my life, I am embarrassed to be a woman. Who ARE these people?

Re: Another massive screw-up by voter group

Pot calling kettle — Tue, 21 Oct 2008 14:07:58 -0000

On the mail in voter registration form: "If you do not have a driverâ€™s license, State Identification Card or social security number, and this form is submitted by mail, and you have never registered to vote in the jurisdiction you are now registering in, then you must send, with this application, either (i) a copy of a current and valid photo identification, or (ii) a copy of a current utility bill, bank statement, government check, paycheck, or other government document that shows the name and address of the voter. If you do not provide the information required above, then you will be required to provide election officials with either (i)or (ii) described above the first time you vote at a voting place or by absentee ballot."

It is not rocket science to check the forms and ID either at the County Clerk's office or at the polling place. In fact, the only reason this issue has made the news (in Lake Co. or with ACORN) is because it is being caught.

Having said that, voter fraud occurs every election, and will continue to recur as long as people vote. There is no perfect system. I would guess that fraudulent voting probably mimics the overall voting and has a minimal impact.