CapitolFax.com - Latest Comments in Can you believe this?

Re: Can you believe this?

John Ruberry — Wed, 10 Oct 2007 01:38:01 -0000

Hey there...There are some interesting observations here. Rather than address each one individually, I put everything on my mind in this Illinoize post:

http://capitalfax.blogspot....

Re: Can you believe this?

rosie ruiz — Tue, 09 Oct 2007 21:57:10 -0000

it's pretty bad to run out of water. i predict that this will be like the '79 blizzard (every plow is out now if there is even a chance of snow) and there will be so much water/gatorade, etc. from now on that you won't believe it.

Re: Can you believe this?

Rich Miller — Tue, 09 Oct 2007 21:41:44 -0000

Papa, that's kinda ridiculous. If organizers ran out of water, it doesn't matter how prepared the runners were.

Re: Can you believe this?

Papa Legba — Tue, 09 Oct 2007 21:20:03 -0000

I don't care about the race organizers excuses. The fact is you had many, many hobby runners out there. There were warnings about excessive heat during the race.

The pro's running seemed to have very little problems. It is a shame more liquids weren't available. There should have been cooling/misting stations brought in for the race. Some blame has to be placed on the race organizers, but in reality about 85% of the people running should not have been out there.

It is sort of like Rich jumping into the boxing ring with Mike Tyson in his prime.

A man got's to know his limitations.

Re: Can you believe this?

blogman — Tue, 09 Oct 2007 19:11:27 -0000

I know that runners could have just quit running if they knew it was unsafe but after all that training, I can see why they did not quit. This was a disaster that will give the IOC a reason not to consider Chicago. They ran out of water! WTF! How can you justify that when there would be access to water all over the route form businesses and building owners. They emailed everyone on Wednesday to say it would be hot. If they could not handle the responsibilities of the race they should have called it off or told runners to start as early as 6:00 A.M. This guy should be gone if he believes that nothing else could be done. Does he get paid for this?

Re: Can you believe this?

Amy — Tue, 09 Oct 2007 18:50:03 -0000

there were other heat related running problems
all over the country. Downey's column today
nails it. the runners were warned.

Re: Can you believe this?

Marion Jones' Nutritionist — Tue, 09 Oct 2007 18:37:22 -0000

They were never in Jake, never in.

I think the little submarine sandwich-sized flags of the world stuck into the frozen tundra of the barren south side said more than words could ever say. Or express. Not to mention the CTA buses BREAKING DOWN ON THE WAY THERE CARRYING VIPs.

The Mayor and his gang are making $$$ just PURSUING the games.

And that's the way (uh-huh, uh-huh) they like it (uh-huh, uh-huh) and want it.

Re: Can you believe this?

wallace — Tue, 09 Oct 2007 18:29:38 -0000

Latin America has never hosted the olympics and is perfectly positioned to do so in 2016 in the beautiful city of Rio. Let me be the first member of the "Chicagoans for the Rio Olympics" committee.

Re: Can you believe this?

Jake From Elwood — Tue, 09 Oct 2007 18:25:19 -0000

Your attention please: the 2016 Olympics have just left the building.

Re: Can you believe this?

Rob_N — Tue, 09 Oct 2007 18:19:15 -0000

Just the Facts,

BoA had indicated they would still sponsor -- but they didn't say anything specific.

Re: Can you believe this?

Rob_N — Tue, 09 Oct 2007 18:03:31 -0000

Phocion,

Think about it -- Cellular Field and its 45k patrons have many, many exits and can fan out in all directions. Doesn't take long to clear out.

The 48k runners in the marathon are all funneled through the same starting gate. Takes longer to get them through the single point.

As for using "last year's runners" -- first, that would imply that the 48k registered this year were all brand new entrants since Second City Cop guesstimated twice that amount ran and second, the numbers themselves are coded so anyone using an old flag would get noticed pretty quick (let alone nearly 50k doing it).

Second City Cop ... not the greatest source. (And people wonder why Chicago cops get hit with brutality charges all the time... just read SCC.)

Re: Can you believe this?

Just the Facts — Tue, 09 Oct 2007 17:56:49 -0000

The Marathon has gotten much too large. The race was held too early this year. Yes, Sunday was unusually warm for early October. But, if the race was scheduled on the second or third Sunday in October instead of the first (as it has been at many times in the past) it would have been even less likely that the weather would have been so hot.

I find Pinkowski's comments incredible. To say that he didn't expect runners to take cups of water and drench themselves in an effort to cool off as an excuse for not having enough water is ridiculous. Pinkowski was unprepared. It's that simple.

The comments by "Chicago runner" represent the type of elitist twaddle that intimidates novice runners into thinking that they shouldn't be out running unless they are built like gazelles and are capable of running 3:00 hour marathons.

According to "Chicago runner" "They want to run 3 times a week for 30-45 minutes and once for 90-200 minutes on the weekends and thatâ€™s it." Actually, that's pretty much Galloway's marathon training method and it's a pretty effective method if you want to run, not race, a marathon and finish comfortably.

For many years, the Chicago Marathon has been the marathon of choice for the novice runners because it's a marathon that can be completed at a slower pace without the fear of running alone or having the course closed before you have an opportunity to complete the course. Through the various training programs the beginners have been encouraged to participate. I suppose that's why I found Pinkowski's comments particularly irksome. They didn't take care of the runners that were running the 9:00 minute pace and slower.

It will interesting to see what happens with the marathon next year after the debacle this year. Will Bank of America sponsor the race now that it has purchased LaSalle? Will they limit the field to a more manageable size? As for me, it will be off to Milwaukee, or Minneapolis/St. Paul, or Des Moines or Fox Cities - all places with smaller fall marathons.

Re: Can you believe this?

Phocion Phan — Tue, 09 Oct 2007 17:52:14 -0000

Phocion, and other people who wondered what happened: You might want to check out the Second City Cop blog where an officer posted that he/she thought there were more like 100,000 runners in the race instead of 40,000.

This was based on his (or her) perception that if U.S. Cellular has 45,000 on a World Series night, and it takes 20 minutes to empty the stadium with people walking, why were people still running three hours after the start of the race at the halfway point where this anonymous officer said he/she was stationed.

The officer speculated a lot of runners used last year's numbers and just ran anyway.

Who knows? Something to think about, though. Lots of blame to go around. Lots.

Re: Can you believe this?

anon — Tue, 09 Oct 2007 17:45:45 -0000

I ran the marathon once, following the very sensible Chicago Area Runners Association training program. Although I ran slowly and often walked, I went into the race knowing what my body could and could not endure.

I have worked several times as a volunteer on the course and with the elite runners at the finish line.

I feel bad that this event is getting such a bad wrap. Seeing the marathon from these perspectives left me with the feeling that this is a very organized event.

This is very unfortunate on many levels.

Re: Can you believe this?

Rob_N — Tue, 09 Oct 2007 17:18:03 -0000

10,000 elected not to run (not 900 as Skeeter wrote).

10,000 didn't finish or were told to stop.

Pinkowski's way out of his league here. Yes, everything went according to plan.

What he's completely not comprehending is that the plan was wholly inadequate.

Even if it was record-breaking October heat (more like July), you've got to put a better contingency plan together than what we saw happen Sunday.

Re: Can you believe this?

phocion — Tue, 09 Oct 2007 17:11:10 -0000

Rich, you nailed this. I was infuriated watching Pinkowski on Chicago Tonight. The spin and non-sense he was spewing to Carol Marin's appropriate questioning is all to indicative of an endemic problem afflicting Chicago's power set.

Pinkowski reminds me of Grant Park Advisory Council President Bob O'Neil. Both are funded "privately," yet their missteps cause hemmhoraging of public resources and trust. The Children's Museum debacle and the unrestrained greed of developers at public expense in the South Loop both were pushed strongly by O'Neil. O'Neil is roundly loathed by neighborhood residents, but his out of touch and heavy handed ways don't matter a whit.

Holding no public office, nor even accountable through appointment or oversight, the Mayor has perfect stooges to push through poorly conceived agendas and mismanaged programming. At least when things go wrong in the public sector, someone's head rolls. With the Marathon and Grant Park unaccountable ones - where does the blame, or responsibility lie?

Keep up your great blogging, Rich!

Re: Can you believe this?

Dan Vock — Tue, 09 Oct 2007 17:05:59 -0000

A couple quick points. For people saying there were 10,000 people who didn't run, I'd just say that there are always a ton of people who don't show up for a marathon.

From last year's AP story on the Chicago Marathon: "The field featured 34,698 runners on a misty, blustery day with temperatures of about 40 degrees." So, that means, 1,169 more people ran this year than last year.

And, as far as Chicago runner's attack on run-walkers, well, it's just baseless. I guess I would be one of those (although not in Chicago) and I know quite a few others. When I trained with AIDS Marathon, the biggest goal was simply finishing the marathon by being smart and being prepared. Some 98 percent of the program's racers finish their marathons. They may be slow (I sure was!), but they're not about to kill themselves to cut 15 minutes off their time. As part of our training, we were REQUIRED to have supplemental water and a bunch of other equipment. We ran all summer (six months) in preparation in just as bad heat and humidity (although, we'd try to start earlier).

This whole notion of blaming the victims is really disturbing. They could have been better prepared. But that goes for the organizers too.

Re: Can you believe this?

Jay Byrd — Tue, 09 Oct 2007 17:05:43 -0000

Rich - point taken, but I haven't, nor would I ever, compare what happened yesterday with Katrina...and no one should make that comparison.

Yesterday was a perfect example of what happens when you're not properly trained, yet you sign up for something like this. I was at this year's triathlon too, it was hot and people were dropping like flies. These are high endurance events, and they're not for everyone.

Re: Can you believe this?

wallace — Tue, 09 Oct 2007 17:02:05 -0000

It is becoming pretty clear that the hyped "city that works" doesn't work at all. In recent weeks we have learned that we are one of the cities least prepared to handle a disaster, with one of the worst environmental protection records, with a public transportation system that is falling apart, with the highest sales tax (with more to come) and gasoline costs of any major city, with a series of serious police crimes against the citizenry, not to even mention the many convictions and pending indictments of city officials. Who is managing this city as Daley flits around with deep pocket friends to China, Paris, Rome, Barcelona, Rio, and all those places yet to come in supposed search of support for the olympics selection? By now he must know that Chicago will not be selected so stay home, hire some professional staffers to deal with the multiple messes that his mismanagement have allowed to develop, and use whatever political muscle that you might have to bring some sense to the threatened escalation of taxes and user fees on city residents. Chicago can't even handle a lousy marathon and Daley wants to land the olympics.

Re: Can you believe this?

He makes Ryan Look like a Sain — Tue, 09 Oct 2007 16:58:42 -0000

Both the organizers and the runners are to blame here. The organizers for not having enough liquid on the course and the runners for not knowing their limits. I will tell you that HEAT sneaks up on you and often times people do not realize it until they are in major trouble.

Re: Can you believe this?

A Chicago runner — Tue, 09 Oct 2007 16:49:42 -0000

There are two issues not covered here yet that bear mentioning.

First, the vast majority of the "runners" who are complaining aren't really runners. They are run/walkers who didn't/don't respect the marathon. They signed up because they wanted to do a marathon as a life goal. The vast majority of them (and I say this as a coach of a major running club in town) don't want to put in the work necessary to really prepare to take on a marathon. They don't want to run 5ks and 10ks and half marathons in the months (dare I say years) leading up to the actual marathon. They want to run 3 times a week for 30-45 minutes and once for 90-200 minutes on the weekends and that's it. Sure, that's a lot more than what they were doing but that's not enough for the task at hand. They're simply not ready for anything but optimal conditions race and unfortunately, nature didn't cooperate with them last weekend. Were runners more experienced ie, qualified to run the race based on an earlier race, they'd have known their limits and either not run when it was 88 degrees with 80 percent humidity, run at a pace that allowed them to finish in those conditions, or run with their own supplemental water. It's not as if all these yahoos didn't run all summer, in heat and humidity at least equal to Sunday's conditions, without water stops. People really like to find someone else to blame for their own shortcomings.

Second, no one's talking about the fact that only 350 people (give or take) were hauled away from points throughout the city but that small group essentially shut down the emergency response capabilities of the city. What happens when something big occurs in a major American city? After this weekend is anyone remotely comfortable with our ability to deal with a tragedy of any magnitude? I'm not.

Re: Can you believe this?

Anon — Tue, 09 Oct 2007 16:39:24 -0000

The Government should ban marathons. Now, back to munching doritos on the couch.

Re: Can you believe this?

Rich Miller — Tue, 09 Oct 2007 16:36:29 -0000

Jay Byrd, I agree that some of the coverage is over the top, which is why I held my tongue until Pinkowski made that absolutely inane and, frankly, insane statement today.

In that context, your own comment sounds a lot like some of the people who put all the blame on Katrina's victims, and it will get you about as far.

Re: Can you believe this?

OneManBlog — Tue, 09 Oct 2007 16:32:07 -0000

Being a triathlete (still cool to type that) I would have to say the idea people were pouring water on themselves should not have come as a shock.

Would it have killed the guy to say 'We learned some lessons'?

Re: Can you believe this?

Jay Byrd — Tue, 09 Oct 2007 16:30:37 -0000

Look, no one forced the people to run. I was out watching this race and would venture well over half had no business even being out there. So let's ease off the race organizers a bit, shall we?

Also, someone who runs with a heart condition knows the risk they're taking. The hysterics surrounding this race are amazing.