This man's display of vindictiveness makes Rod Blagojevich look like a saint...and that's saying something. Pure political filth. This is literally sickening. Countless lives are being toyed with, so one man (and one family) can benefit. Remind you of anyone????
Objective Dem
· 7 months ago
Most successful organizations work hard at drawing smart talented people to work for them. That is one reason they are successful. But the State, and most government for that matter, doesn't understand this concept. Instead our elected official make a habit of treating employees like lazy corrupt idiots.
I cannot imagine any other industry where leaders talk about "fumigating," that is killing insects, in regards to their work force.
There are undoubtedly some state employees that should be fired and replaced with more qualified employees. Some of these people were brought in by Blago and some were there before. But overall, the vast majority of state employees are decent hard working people and shouldn't be treated so poorly.
Rich Miller
· 7 months ago
People, did you not read anything posted? Calm down.
RJW
· 7 months ago
Why don't you calm down Rich? Is your job on the line? Well, mine is. I may be double-exempt, but I AM NOT political. I didn't know anyone to get my job. I have moved up for the past 12 years. So, I believe I will be a little upset over this. I have a family to support. To be jerked around like this is crappy. Fire those who should be - yes. But you don't have to chop off your nose just to spite your face.
RJW
· 7 months ago
Yes, I know I can be "terminated" for any reason. But I should be fired based on merits and not by legislative fiat.
Skirmisher
· 7 months ago
The comments on this did get a bit goofy, if not downright hysterical, yesterday. The howls that this would destroy middle management were particularly bizarre. I, for one, never presumed for a moment that this was aimed at the professional middle managers who for the most part came up through the ranks and who actually run most state agencies. This is aimed at directors and the legions of deputy directors and others of that ilk that have proliferated under the past couple of administrations (Also under Edgar). Under Blagojevich especially, these were all too often well-connected 20-somethings who came into an agency knowing little or nothing, but were started at salaries that most middle managers in those agencies could only hope to achieve after 30-35 years service. They added nothing of value, have frequently been a nuisance to the professionals, and invariably damaged agency morale. They knew perfectly well they were political hacks, and if you live by politics, you can also die by politics. Good riddance to them. State government cannot help but benefit by the permenant departure of most of them, and those really needed can be replaced by qualified professionals, not various politions who lost their bids for re-election.
Rich Miller
· 7 months ago
RJW, my comments were aimed at those who believe this will also, in the end, apply to single exempts. You, however, appear to have a right to rant.
RJW
· 7 months ago
Rich:
Thank you. I will keep my rants to a minimum. I just would like to be judged by my performance and I hope I have the chance to argue my case.
Rich Miller
· 7 months ago
RJW, you are wrong, however, that this is "legislative fiat." There is no such thing. The governor has a lot of very strong veto powers in this state. I saw a lot of people yesterday talking here about the separation of powers, but that's just loony tunes. The GA can pass all the bills it wants, but the top dog still has to sign them into law.
Mike Ins
· 7 months ago
So Illinois has a problem with politicians... and what is the solution?
Why, naturaully... Mass firing of some-as-yet-unsettled-subset of state workers! Taxes increased for all state residents! Services cut! Unpaid furlough days for all state workers! Promised pensions under and un-funded for state workers!
Did someone say "distraction"? Hahah.
Cassandra
· 7 months ago
But wait--I thought that the governor already had the power to dicharge double exempt folks. Why do we need legislation. I believe a rep of the university trustees said essentially the same thing.We serve at the pleasure of the governor.
So..why is Quinn so afraid of firing anybody. He says he has gumption, but where's the beef. I guess the "gumption" will come in when hits up the middle class for a regressive tax increase in the middle of a recession. That's apparently a lot easier than listening to the weeping and wailing of state employees losing their cushy $90 and $100k jobs or standing up to employees unions.
Hopefully, some news outlets will put together a list of the 3000, who represent a small fraction of the approximately 60,000 state work force. It would be interesting to see their salaries and start dates and "sponsors." Surely, this is public information. We will no doubt find a plethora of "associate deputy directors" and "assistant associate deputy directors" with hefty salaries and close ties to the Democratic party. Plus quite a few elderly lifers with 30+ years in who have somehow managed to get their terms renewed. In this economic environment, I don't have any problem with these folks having to reapply for their jobs. It'll be good for 'em-wake 'em up a bit, and maybe we can get rid of some deadwood.
You Go Boy
· 7 months ago
In a related matter, Speaker Madigan has a history of liking to shake up the "bureaucrats", and this may have been on his bi-annual calendar TO DO list anyway. He has spoken of the "fat, white bureaucrats living in Chatham" for which he has little use, but more generally, it's probably fun for him to create a stir once in a while....keep 'em on their toes.
Princess
· 7 months ago
I watched in amazement yesterday and read post after post both here and eleswhere. First impish thought was 'at least it's not us peons they are picking on this time' . But then reality sat in. First I don't believe we'll see anywhere near the numbers gone feared. Second, I agree there are some who need to go and likely will but believe Quinn will use common sense that people doing their work and doing it well and have long served in this manner of ethics will be spared.
But last, my hearts going out to all the good, hardworking, clean as can be state employees that have to wait this out. The ol' too often said 'been there, done that' rattle is hitting home for me. As one who was kicked around and toyed with last year, I know how some of these employees are feeling-to have somebody stand over you with their hand on the edge of the run and threaten to yank it out from under you. So for the most part, just wanted to say that I'm hoping sanity rules here and those who have been with the state and worked hard and ethical all their lives get through this and that I hope the big dogs will someday learn to stop using people as bargaining chips. We're humans guys, not toys.
Plutocrat03
· 7 months ago
It was a mistake to spike the idea of starting at the boards where the known problems are.
From a purely organizational standpoint, you should have a pilot program which goes through the steps needed to achieve your goals on a smaller scale and see how it works out.
It is highly unlikely that the first method you try will be the correct one and improvements would benefit the succeeding reorganizations.
Trying to reorganize everything at once is a recipe for failure.
I do believe that a person who has gotten his/her job through political means has the ability to perform well in their position. They should only be removed from their position under two conditions. They do not do their job well or the position is redundant and can be accomplished with a smaller head count in the department or branch.
Mike Ins
· 7 months ago
Sorry for the ignorance, I understand "Rutan exempt" and the concept of being "personnel code" exempt, at least in theory... but can anyone "in practice" give me a sense of what these positions actually are?
How many Ryan people are still in top positions? Madigan is being Madigan - link Ryan and Madigan's candidate Blago together, pretend to reform, and then get 300 great new patronage positions to fill! He's the anti-reformer!
Testicular Verility
· 7 months ago
Memo to Quinn: Grow a pair.
Rich Miller
· 7 months ago
TV, you're just not getting it. But I guess you'll have to subscribe to see why you're wrong. They love this bill.
dupage dan
· 7 months ago
Mike Ins is right - one big distraction. Keep the blogs and the folks talkin' 'bout the fumigate and we won't notice the Madigate.
A Citizen
· 7 months ago
I recall that during the Ryan trial there was an Exhibit - "The Scott Fawell Favors List" or something similar. It was a computer printout about two or three inches thick and gave quite a bit of specific info on sponsors, hires, salaries etc. I wonder if that is in this mix?
Phineas J. Whoopee
· 7 months ago
I like this legislation and hope that the Governor is aboard, however, there needs to be safety valves in place to keep good employees. I'm don't think a 60 day review period will be enough for the Governor to set up a committee to review all the appeals from folks to keep their jobs.
Removing corrupt employees appointed through criminal enterprises has to be a priority and this bill helps expedite the process but there are many exceptions and exceptional employees that need to be kept.
14 years of crooks appointing people to govern this state is a long time. Boy is this state screwed up.
wordslinger
· 7 months ago
I'm trying to think of reasons why Quinn would like this.
I guess it's possible it provides him cover to get rid of the folks Madigan REALLY wants gone, perhaps some of Quinn's friends or those with political sponsors he doesn't want to anger.
He can say, "Look, the writing's on the wall. I'm going to have problems with Madigan if you stick around. I have too much to do. My hands are tied. Sorry, but so long."
Still, given the recent focus by Collins' Reform Commission on the GA and particularly leaders, I think there's a Velvet Hammer message in Madigan's bill: You want reform? Get your own house in order before you start peddling that stuff my way.
I also take a bit of exception to Madigan's reasoning, which I found superfluous. It's true that under the Constitution, the GA impeached and convicted Blago, making Quinn governor. But it's also true that Quinn is governor because, under the Constitution, the Lt. Guv assumes the office upon a vacancy.
The reason for the vacancy is irrelevant. In other words, Quinn isn't half-a-governor because of how he got the office. And as Rich pointed out, as governor, Quinn has an awful lot of of power when it comes to legislation passed by the GA.
Double Exempt
· 7 months ago
In response to Mike Ins,
Double exempt (refering to being exempt from Rtuan hiring requirements and the Personnel Code) covers many positions.
Many are attorneys at various levels, SPSAs that have worked their way up or are recent hires, some are Admins or Paralegals, many are mid level managers(many long-time state employees) and most, if not all, high level positions, Director, Deputy Director, General Counsel, etc. are double exempt.
Depending on the agency it could just mean a few top people, it could also mean eliminating the whole upper and mid-leve management or even an entire division in some circumstances (especially legal related positions). A lot of long-term institutional knowledge and experience from those who really did earn their jobs could be lost, and along with it the people who may know best how to try and fix the many existing problems facing IL.
I wonder what that would do to state employee moral and whether it would effect IL residents getting their services. Something to ponder.
Scooby
· 7 months ago
Quinn already has the power to fire all of the double exempt positions today if he wanted to, so I'm not sure that TV's comments are misplaced, particularly if they love the bill.
Second, and I think the subscriber only analysis did not give this concern enough weight, a large layoff of top level staff across state government at every agency would be very, very disruptive. Even if this bill is scaled back from 3,000 potential layoffs to just several hundred, you're still talking about a loss of all top decision makers at every agency, and a bureaucratic nightmare of trying to review who to reappoint and which positions need to be filled with new applicants, who does the screening, interviewing and selecting of the new employees and how that process is sensitive to the political pressure for each situation. The only way to accomplish that feat would be to implement a highly centralized hiring process run out of the Governor's office, you know, like the one that was highly criticized and problematic in the past.
As an operational idea, this is foolish and irrational. I'm not going to criticize the commenters who see this as a power grab by the legislative branch and a political wilting by the executive. I think they may be right.
Arthur Andersen
· 7 months ago
"Legislative Fiat"...until recently, that was called the Chrysler 300.
RJW, hang in there. You know that there are many people, and their families, in the same boat as you and yours. We'll hope for the best.
Objective Dem, you raise an often-ignored point. Apparently the Three Tops could give a rat's behind about the morale in State government or the ability to recruit beyond the Crook County line for qualified professionals to fill important State positions. What a pathetic legacy to leave behind after all the years of service.
wordslinger
· 7 months ago
I wonder why Quinn just didn't demand the resignations, without effective dates, of X number of employees when he took office, for him to act on at his discretion? It's a pretty common practice of CEOs.
Northside Bunker
· 7 months ago
$100,000+ Club at the Illinois Tollway Not long ago the only employee who made 6 figures was the Executive Director. Now it's close to fifty individuals raking it in. Wake up Quinn!
Bill Lee
· 7 months ago
"Allows the Governor to make temporary appointments and to subsequently nominate or employ a terminated person."
As I read this, if I were Quinn I would love it because I can enjoy the power of keeping the wheat and throwing out the chaff, and have the political cover of Legislative collaboration and the legal cover of it being a state law - noone comes back to sue, like when Blago dumped 50 for a press release.
Black Ivy
· 7 months ago
I completely agree with RJW, Rich. It is very, very difficult to CALM DOWN when your livelihood is being threatened for the most asinine of reasons. And for what? Because state government needs to be "fumigated." Are you kidding me? Double-exempt employees include Directors, Deputy Directors, Associate Directors, Assistant Directors, Personnel Directors, Administrators, General Counsels, Deputy General Counsel, etc. - in other words, licensed, professional staff, the majority of which are hard-working state employees who CHOOSE to serve as public servants rather than making private sector compensation.
Governor Pat Quinn, Senate President John Cullerton, and House Speaker Michael Madigan are using double-exempt employees to make an unjustified, politically vitriolic statement and IT STINKS to high heaven. Each of them are lawyers and should understand the arbitrary and capricous nature of theis proposal, which may ultimately be deemed unconsitutional.
How in the world can the legislative branch tell the executive brach whom to hire? Overreaching and dangerous...
Testicular Verility
· 7 months ago
Even if Quinn's folks like it - it's stilly a wimpy way to operate. If Quinn wants to fumigate, like he said he wanted to, then do it! Don't hide behind someone else's cover.
And I am waiting for a Capitol Fax Stimulus Plan before signing up for a sub. Commencing to hold breath in 3, 2, .....
Macbeth
· 7 months ago
Given the massive brain drain when Blagojevich took office -- this bill in whatever form makes no sense. The brain drain here would be twice the Blagojevich drain -- and it would take probably twice as long to get up to speed.
No, 3000 people won't lose their jobs. Yes, the agency heads should go. But to go beyond the agency heads is crazy -- especially now when nearly every agency is understaffed.
Calm down? Sure. But Quinn should simply zero in on the folks he knows are bad news -- and we know he knows this -- and demand their resignations. And then -- for the love of god -- move on and get Illinois State government back up and running.
Cassandra
· 7 months ago
I believe it is common practice in many institutions for the new CEO to replace the division heads, whose replacements then get to pick their people and so on. The ordinary employees--accountants, quality service managers, lower level attorneys, and so on keep their jobs. Quinn was apparently too inept or scared or compromised to replace anybody so Madigan is doing it for him.
The notion that these 3000 folks are likely so valuable and critical to state government functioning that we have to keep them on the job because nobody else could do it is totally absurd. There are many thousands of professionals looking for work right now. This is a great time to find some new people.
Nobody is indispensable although I suspect we are likely to hear from a great many who think they are.
Rich Miller
· 7 months ago
===Double-exempt employees include Directors, Deputy Directors, Associate Directors, Assistant Directors, Personnel Directors, Administrators, General Counsels, Deputy General Counsel, etc===
OK, but in my opinion those are exactly the type of people who should be changed when a new boss comes in.
R Rotunda
· 7 months ago
Rich, With respect terminating the exempt employees, this clearly violates the separation of powers limitation in the constitution. The Governor is in charge of operating the executive branch. He can-within the budget set by the GA-execute those functions how he pleases. That is what he was elected to do. Whether Quinn signs the bill or not is irrelevant-ask a lawyer. The problem is if Quinn honors the bill and asks people to leave his is essentially firing them and the bill is irrelevant, making a legal challenge somewhat difficult. It would not be the first time the GA had overstepped their constitutional bounds, but it sounds an awful lot like someone they complained about. The GA did not want Blago interfering in their operations and labeled him a dictator for doing so by calling endless special sessions. These actions go even further. The Ga should worry about passing ethic reform and capital bill. Leave the executive branch to the governor
MrSpeaker
· 7 months ago
Mike Madigan sent a signal to Quinn, "you can't fire a few non power people and call it fumigating, all or nothing" either way, who ever Quinn keeps it's on him now, he can't scapegoat forever and Madigan let him know it. So if he keeps Lavin, Filan, Adams, Sledge, Walker, Ocha,etc.. they now become his people and they are still tied to Blago they will haunt him in the press, either way it's a PR nightmare for him if he keeps Blago's higher ups. I would caution using the word "fumigate" because 90% of the people appointed did a decent job. But this is the way a normal transition works, so it's fair and square. Bravo Mr Speaker.
Objective Dem
· 7 months ago
Rich, I stand by my earlier comment.
Both Madigan and Quinn are using the term "fumigate." Now the term is being used by the MSM.
This term is offensive because it equates double exempt state employees with vermin and insects. It also inaccurately gives the general public the impression that there is widespread corruption in government.
Second, there will be double exempt employees replaced because they don't have the right clout. They may have been a Blago person, but honest and smart. Or they may have been associated with a Blago ally who is now on the outs with Quinn. Or they may simply have a job that Quinn or Madigan want for one of their people. But rather than losing their job due to normal political turnover of administrations; they are being "fumigated" and removed. They become tainted as corrupt or incompetent.
And by the way, I can guarantee that some of the most incompetent employees will keep their job because they have clout.
I find this whole process inappropriate and ineffective.
Captain Flume
· 7 months ago
== “This is truly Madigan at what Madigan does,†Bost said. “He can now go out and tell people, ‘I was for radical reform. if you vote no you choose not to do that.’†==
Boy, that really sounds like the kind of thing Blagojevich would say about his own proposed actions, especially on amendatory vetoes. It's that populist tyranny stance we got to know so well during the previous administration.
Mike Ins
· 7 months ago
Well, I stand to lose big time in this process, personally, but overall it will be a disruption, and institutional knowledge will be lost, but 3,000 (or 1,000, whatever) people out and 1,000 different people in. It's a net-out for the state on a macro level. And you can probably rehire in at lesser salaries.
But c'mon, nothing changes. THe positions are still "double exempt" and subject to a political process. What changed? Openings for "others" to weigh in on.
So it bad for me and my young family, but hey, that's life... going out in this economy not going to be fun and I truly enjoyed my time with the state and it bothers me to be jerked around like this...
... but in the end it's pretty obvious, despite what people would have you believe on these message boards and what-not, that financially private world much much much more lucrative for the majority of the professionals that will be let go.
Most double-exempts will, within a year, be making more money, significantly more, than they do at the state, so that is a silver lining.
Rich Miller
· 7 months ago
===The Ga should worry about passing ethic reform and capital bill. Leave the executive branch to the governor ===
That was an absolutely breathtaking comment. Have you already forgotten George Ryan and Rod Blagojevich? Are you insane?
Former State Employee
· 7 months ago
I hope during the 60 day review process someone looks at the date the position became "double exempt". Many were arbitrarily converted on Blago's watch. I worked my way up from an entry level postion in the 70's to an SPSA - no term, no double. Lo and behold one day my position was deemed "double exempt" and a few months later, I was gone and my postion handed over to a person who was a convicted felon and was fired from his previous job for sexual harassment. Hmmm...would I like to see him go, you bet. Unfortunately, this is not an isolated case, at least at DHS.
Larry Mullholland
· 7 months ago
support the concept of cleaning out the upper tier which Quinn promised but has failed to deliver.
However, I have a great fear that the replacements will be unqualified political hacks as well.
How can anyone have confidence that the replacements will be qualified and committed as opposed to politically sponsored?
Gov Quinn: I suggest creating a bipartisan commission to review the resumes and then hire the most qualified replacements.
Is that exactly the type of thing Quinn has clamored for the last thirty years? Will Quinn live up to all of his preaching? Not so far....
wapak
· 7 months ago
Being new to state government, I find it strange that even though I got my job by answering a newspaper ad and going through a interview process, not by pulling strings or by knowing someone or by contributing to a candidate or party, my position could be subject to "fumigation"?
Rich, any idea on whether the fumigation efforts could oust people in jobs which are union jobs?
Six Degrees of Separation
· 7 months ago
OK, but in my opinion those are exactly the type of people who should be changed when a new boss comes in.
Here's the problem with that, at least from one agency's prespective.
In the old days, there were mostly figurehead "Deputy Directors" at IDOT who you might miss a few if they all were fired. When Blago came in, he created several more Deputy positions, folding in all the old District Engineer positions which were the lifeblood of operation, direction and institutional knowledge.
Quinn gets rid of all the Department heads and Deputies, and any other double exempts at IDOT and now you miss most of them, and the place is even more dysfunctional than it is now...plus, Quinn's "organization" and tentacles do not have a deep bench, so who is he going to pick to replace these folks? Either he fills them with hacks he doesn't know well, or puts the same people back in place for expediency's sake.
Lots of downside and very little apparent upside here. A targeted Orkin Man, rather than a fumigation truck, seems to be in order.
wapak
· 7 months ago
By the way, I agree with (Professor?) Rotunda's comments. There is a significant constitutional issue at stake and, if the bill were to be read to include union positions, you'd see a lawsuit by the unions to prevent its implementation as to those union positions.
MrSpeaker
· 7 months ago
Larry, you are correct- you need a "sponsor" to get and protect your double exempt job.
Basically, if you give you and yours get, there is a "clout" list floating around for years, Tribune had it, just take a look and get rid of the people on it, that would take care of most of the problems. But the real problem is campaign finance reform, that is where th $ponsor$ have too much power on hiring in the governor's branch but the governor need$ them to campaign..and so it goes. Blagojevich did not invent this broken system in Illinois.
Rich Miller
· 7 months ago
=== any idea on whether the fumigation efforts could oust people in jobs which are union jobs?===
Zero. Just try to take a few deep breaths.
Geoff
· 7 months ago
It would seem to make more sense to undo Blago's actions, not the people who worked in his administration. They have already been dealt a tough hand...having the Blago stain on their resumes for the rest of their careers although 99 percent probably never sat in a meeting wtih Rod or had any influence over how he governed.
When he was impeached, there was plenty of outrage and plenty of apparent momentum to undo the tarnised last acts of his governorship. There were bills that were signed as a direct result of the pay to play shenanigans that got him locked up. THere were bills he signed that had to do with matters discussed by his inner circle on federal wiretaps -- the signing of the bill to extend horseracing subsidy (a horrible, horrible policy in the first place) is key among them.
We thought those bills would quickly get undone...but our lawmakers have done very little to give us any assurance that they are going to undo the taint Blago left on our state.
So, our leaders should worry less about the people and do more to roll back Blago's crooked actions..for the benefit of our state and to send the message to we taxpayers that the "new era" is upon us. As time wastes away... so does the outrage and I fear we'll be no better off months from now.
i see...
· 7 months ago
I don't necessarily agree that Gen Counsels/D GCs should auto-change with administrations. They hold a lot of institutional knowledge and are bound to ethical standards. If the Governor doesn't like them, then obviously they can be fired.
Also, some agencies that practice administrative law will suffer and/or be paralyzed as administrative law judges are double-exempt.
Mike Ins
· 7 months ago
Again, it's a distraction. For every Filan and do-nothing figurehead, they're going to have to sort through 10 employees with 20+ years of experience or entry level paralegals. Quinn blew it, he could have done it the other way around, now he is being forced to go through this cumbersome process. The people on the line to lose their income will continue to hyperventilate no matter how many times they are told to "calm down" - it takes a few days to get to "acceptance".
Cassandra is right - the graveyard is full of "irreplaceable" people, as the cliche goes. On the other hand, some valuable knowledge will inevitably be lost and morale will not be good. But these are all survivable things, and this coming from a double-exempt definitely on the firing line.
However... it is still a distraction... what changes? Just a ton of positions that need to be filled/vetted/etc when the leadership should be focusing on the budget issues but will not be. Will instead be focusing on endless requests to save this guy or that girl, etc. etc.
Again - $12Billion deficit, capital bill, tax increases... and all that going to be knocked aside in a battle over whether executive employees going to summarily fired OR term-limits for legislative leaders (Horror of horrors!) might happen.
Good, bad or indifferent, can we all agree that this is a distraction from the real issues facing this state?
Nuance
· 7 months ago
Did I read it correctly that Madigan said most of the 3,000 are not critical to running the agencies. I apologize if this is mis-interpreted
That seems a little unrealistic to me. If it is true the public should ask why hire any back then?
casual observer
· 7 months ago
I think if Quin had gotten rid of Filan and some others from the get-go we wouldn't be discussing this right now. Madigan is right to say if you keep these people they are no longer Blago's people, they're yours.
Rich Miller
· 7 months ago
===Good, bad or indifferent, can we all agree that this is a distraction from the real issues facing this state? ===
No.
Mike Ins
· 7 months ago
Correct - all Hearing Officers gone.
Hope no one has a nursing license renewal coming up anytime soon that has to go through hearing (or any of the other professions regulated).
Honestly get that in now, get your professional licenses renewed now if it coming up in the next 6 months.
Rich Miller
· 7 months ago
===Correct - all Hearing Officers gone.===
Incorrect.
Read the bill. They're gone only if Quinn doesn't rehire them by the end of the transition period.
Take a freaking breath.
rjw
· 7 months ago
mr speaker
you dont need a sponsor to be double exempt. my position is professional. i did not have any backing. i interviewed just like you would in the private sector
cassandra
your thougts on state employee are old. fire me for doing my job just so someone else can hav i. stupid
Skirmisher
· 7 months ago
I have to qualify my previous comment by admitting that Former State Employee has a good point. Many actual, come up from the bottem, professional people were made double exempt by Blago. However, these folks have solid personnel records to show that they earned their positions. They will survive.
Mike Ins
· 7 months ago
Rich -
"Re-hire" suggests you must first be "fired", what am I not getting?
Mike Ins
· 7 months ago
Rich -
That said, I do to take a breath, or a drink! Or both. I'll give you that hahah. I am seriously not fun to be around today!
casual observer
· 7 months ago
If they add a new "tier" to the pension system for new hires will the "re-hires" fall under the new rules?
Objective Dem
· 7 months ago
Today's Tribune reported "Madigan said lawmakers tossed Blagojevich out of office Jan. 29 but still are "constantly coming up against the same people we were disagreeing with under Blagojevich" when dealing with state agencies."
I'm sure Madigan made other statements regarding his reasons for "fumigating" the State. But this statement indicates that the fumigation isn't just about corruption or incompetence; it is about getting rid of people who aren't giving the legislators what they want. The reality is some of these people may just be difficult and not capable of finding a win-win solution. But I'm sure there are a number of other people who stood up to Madigan and the legislature because it was the right thing to do. Believe it or not, sometimes legislators come up with very stupid ideas that are not practical or legal or affordable and the executive branch has to say no to them. This "fumigation" process will make it much harder for executive branch employees to say no to legislators in the future.
Whistleblower
· 7 months ago
Many people are the target of corrupt public official and corrupt management employees. These corrupt people continue to abuse the power of office for their own goals and aggrandizement. They continue to hurt the People of the State of Illinois. The people that in management that followed their orders and looked the other way ought to be fired right along with the corrupt powers that be.
David Ormsby
· 7 months ago
What has Illinois gained from so many "years of experience" from its "hard-working professionals"?
Under DHS, for instance, the Howe Developmental Center and Tinley Park Mental Health Center were decertified by the federal government in 2007 because patients were unnecessarily drugged or restrained without medical justification.
Howe lost $30 million from the federal government last year because of DHS' years of "experience" and "professionalism".
Madigan is right. Clean house. Finally.
el Conquistador
· 7 months ago
I firmly do not agree with exempting single (Rutan) exempt positions from this bill. Simply put, ALL Rutan exempt positions are patronage positions. The majority of single exempt positiions are Senior Public Service Administrators (SPSA's) along with a frequently unacknowledged large no. of Public Service Administrators (PSAs).
Excellent examples of "under the radar" single exempt positions include agency legislative liaisons and personnel liaisons. These positions are typically PSA Option 1 positions and are almost exclusively filled with political hacks. They do not have to be posted, and frankly, there really is no interview process. Filling of single exempt positions is in many, many instances completely political. The only vetting process is a political one. Hiring is rarely, if ever, based on merit. Many current incumbents of single exempt positions had zero experience when given their job and continue to exhibit total incompetence to date. Most are unbelievably inept.
There are a large no. of qualified SPSA single exempt incumbents. In such cases, they should welcome the Gov's vetting process to rid their ranks of the hacks. All Rutan exempt positions and their incumbents should be evaluated both for the necessity of the position and the qualifications of the incumbent. Legislative and personnel liaisons (PSAs) were at the heart of corrupt hiring and agency actions over the past 10 years. Ask anyone who works in state gov't. These folks were political hires and are now trying to hide under Civil Service protection. Shine the light on them and re-evaluate these positions.
Objective Dem
· 7 months ago
I have a suggestion for Gov. Quinn.
Identify some of the most troubled state agencies. Then recruit a Director using a nationwide search and let them know that they can bring in a handful of key staff. Give them 3 months to create a turn-around plan and then support them. When they want to get rid of political hacks, support them.
The second rec is whatever you do, don't appoint someone you met and seem like a good person, even though they don't have any real experience, as Director. And especially don't do this at a critical agency like the State Police. That would indicate you value personal connections more than knowledge and experience. And they could embarrass you because they won't understand those weird government rules like FOIA. (oops, I'm a little late with this rec.)
anon
· 7 months ago
So the IL Arts Council is really exempt from this? If so, is any other Board, Commission or Agency exempt? I couldn't recall any others after looking over the list but maybe I'm wrong. Um, it would seem a little audacious to exempt the Arts Council, you know if you were truly sincere about reform and all...
OMG
· 7 months ago
Quinn has certainly been more than slow to find new staff who are competent and able to run agencies and so I see the rationale for some kind of bill. But given Quinn's track record of who he has proposed when he has proposed someone new, it is really scary to think of him filling a lot of positions. Will it be more 20 somethings with no relevant background? little management experience? who just so happen to be friends or who have military experience? And it has to be said that this is a pretty large intrusion by the GA into the executive branch, even if one understands the rationale. I can't see anything good coming from this.
steve schnorf
· 7 months ago
Excuse me, Rich, please remind me of the terrible things GHR did as Governor.
Leave a light on George
· 7 months ago
el Conquistador - You said it better than I could. In blago's six years PSA postions with real duties were filled with unqualified hacks. Then many of them were made into union positions. Those folks should go but I don't see how you get at them. In my small little corner of state government these folks ruined a good department and alienated a generally supportive citzenry.
Any SPSA appointed by Blago should be reviewed right now. If they are not up to snuff reassign them to sit in a corner and do not renew their term. A lot less efficient than firing them immediately but avoids the lawsuits that happened when Gov. F- Bomb fired folks by press release.
Interesting
· 7 months ago
So if the pension reform bill passes before the termination bill, would all these people be re-hired under the new reduced pension benefits?
Narcoleptic
· 7 months ago
--i see--
General Counsels who are SPSAs--especially--should be included in this. The attorney at EPA who was a Deputy Chief of staff and who was blended back into the woodwork before Quinn took over helped shoehorn favors to plenty of Blago cronies.
Now he sits comfortably at IEPA paring his nails and laughing. The same with other GCs who helped massage Blagojevich personnel moves, grant rationalizations and FOIA denials. These are attorneys who should have known better (of course, Rod, Lon, Wyma, Harris, et al, were also attorneys so I'm not sure that has anything to do with it). But I certainly don't think they deserve an exemption because of some claim of rational distance or the even less convincing "institutional knowledge."
There are quite a few attorneys out there who would tell you they are "quick studies" and more than willing to get themselves up to speed on agency issues.
So, no, agency attorneys definitely should not get a pass. Their institutional memory certainly didn't stop them from giving a legal rubber stamp to plenty of Blagojevich shenanigans.
Good try, though.
el Conquistador
· 7 months ago
Leave a light on...
I'm not a lawyer, but perhaps firing the exempt PSAs by operation of law avoids the civil service protection cluster? Or, maybe by firing all of them without exception the arguments used to combat political firings are undermined.
Someone please figure it out. All are tired of seeing the system gamed.
Ulysses
· 7 months ago
I'm double-exempt and applaud Madigan. I don't understand the controversy. All those deserving will certainly be reappointed. Those who aren't will be held accountable. Don't we owe the taxpayers that!?!
Rich Miller
· 7 months ago
Ulysses, thanks. Anyone who is double-exempt ought to know they exist purely at the whims of the top dog. Nobody owns their jobs in state gvt, but especially the 2xE folks.
Black Ivy
· 7 months ago
Narcoleptic, are you advocating that all agency attorneys should be temrinated, simply because one "bad seed" exists?
All agency attorneys are double-exempt. While every aency has a General Counsel or Chief Legal COunsel, there are many, many legal counsel or legal staff who are not appointed by the Governor or confirmed by the Senate that would be covered under this legislation.
Should agency attorneys be terminated to make room for the many private sector attorneys pining for a state job? Where the fairness and logic in that?
Mike Ins
· 7 months ago
I think the 2XE's know they dont own their jobs, and knew that before all of this occurred. However, I will say that the state union jobs are pretty darn close to being "owned", more so than I've seen anywhere else private, non-profit or public employ.
Black Ivy
· 7 months ago
Rich and Ulysses, I too am unfraid of scrutiny by the Govenror's Office as a double-exempt state employee. However, why in the world would I trust that I would be given a fair evaluation free of poltiical considerations?
Rumor has it that Madigan is attempting to make "room" for his people in the executive state agencies. Who's running thsi state anyway?
Black Ivy
· 7 months ago
Sorry for the typos - I am so furious and disappointed as I ahve worked my tail off in my role....
Rich Miller
· 7 months ago
===why in the world would I trust that I would be given a fair evaluation free of poltiical considerations?===
I wish you absolutely nothing but the best and I have empathy for what you must be going through right now. But, you certainly know as a double exempt employee you have no right to make any demands about how you can be evaluated or removed. You're totally at-will.
Mike Ins
· 7 months ago
I have never been anything but "at-will" my entire career, from detassling corn and bus boy, from private sector employment, from non-profit employment, and now my time in state govt.
I dont EXPECT to be anything other than "at will" ever. And I am not naive enough to believe that my career will be based on merit only, or my performance solely. That isnt true at any employment situation.
... I can say all that and still think that a cutting of all 2XEs simultaneously and subject the rehiring of the exact same positions is bad policy... created by Quinn's failure to act, admittedly.
The reason I think it bad policy is not because I "own" my job, but rather because, as someone points out above, I do not believe the "rehire" process will be "untainted".
That's all. I dont think anyone misunderstands that an Agency Director at IDOT is a powerful position and needs to be reviewed. However, again, for every Agency Director, you've got a half-dozen paralegals copying files in a back-room somewhere. Are those paralegals going to get a "fair review"? Maybe. Maybe not.
But life isnt fair and win some, lose some, sometimes it rains.
wapak
· 7 months ago
Any reason why Quinn didn't ask for and receive the resignations of all agency heads/directors, General Counsels/Chief Counsels, Chiefs of Staff and Deputy Directors/Counsels within the first week after he took office?
As far as this bill, I see it as a full-employment act for lawyers as it will spawn hundreds of lawsuits if it passes and is implemented.
Realist
· 7 months ago
Quinn may not realize it, but Madigan is slowly and surely ruining Quinn politically.
Anonymous
· 7 months ago
Rich, of course the double exempts are "at will". But that's a double edged sword. If the law says you're "at will", but the custom and practice is to treat you fairly, then you will attract people to the positions who are comfortable with that bargain. If the custom is, we can be arbitrary and capricious with you, because the law allows it, so stop belly-aching, then you will only attract people who are willing to live with that bargain. Notwithstanding the importance of the rank and file, the double exempts have their hands on the steering wheels of every agency. If you want the only people driving to be people who have no better option than a job where they tell you up front - you're at will and we can and will jerk you around just because we can - you'll get the quality of people in state government you deserve.
el Conquistador
· 7 months ago
Ah, the last bastion of the "wronged" political hack hire... the legal system.
"If you fire me from my ill-gotten political patronage job that I was unqualified to fill, I'll sue!"
MrSpeaker
· 7 months ago
Cassandra- my point is that dbl expt employees aka appointments are "at will" most of those jobs are political in one way or another but I agree not all- but when a new admin comes in, usually after an election, there is a good chance dbl expt employees are asked to submit resignations and either invited back or not, if you have a sponsor chances are you will be asked back or you have done an extraordinary at your work AND are very well known. I am not making any indcitment of state employees at all, just how a true transition of power works. MMadigan just did what Quinn should have done 98 days ago.
Rich Miller
· 7 months ago
===then you will only attract people who are willing to live with that bargain. ===
Doubtful in this economy.
Phineas J. Whoopee
· 7 months ago
Who’s running thsi state anyway?"
Well it sure isn't Blago anymore and those who were appointed to a political position by the most corrupt Governor in this States history would be wise to get their ducks in a row and be prepared to defend their job performance.
I am sure many posters indignation is righteous but the former Governor and his administration tarnished the state to the point where every appointment should be examined.
Governor Quinn is much more patient and forgiving than I would have been. The Blagojevich administration didn't give him the respect he deserved as LT and I am amazed he didn't clean house immediately.
Rich Miller
· 7 months ago
===the most corrupt Governor in this States history===
I think it's safe to say that everyone who got a state job from Len Small is now dead.
Bill
· 7 months ago
== I will say that the state union jobs are pretty darn close to being “ownedâ€== Ive been telling you 2xes and 1xes to organize yourselves into a union for a long time. Many of you have. Some of you can't but the rest of you liked to think of yourselves as "bosses" and as "management" who would never accept being anything but adversairal with "labor". Well, you see now how that turned out. Good luck. Maybe you can find an apprenticeship somewhere.
Pale Rider
· 7 months ago
I don't think enough is being made about how MJM is keeping his wife's board insulated from this. It just goes to show you that he is a hypocrite. The fumigation is good for the rest of the masses, but not as far as my family is concerned.
Phineas J. Whoopee
· 7 months ago
Wow, a Bill Scott reference and now Len Small. Okay, 2nd most but Blago is still the most embarrassing.
HV in HP
· 7 months ago
Exempt employees complaining about this should consider that they accepted the position knowing that this was a possibility. Complaining now is like military personnel complaining about being sent to war. Sorry buddy, but it's a risk you take by choosing the position.
Objective Dem
· 7 months ago
Rich,
I definitely agree with you that double-exempt employees are hired and fired at the will of the Governor and have no job security. And I think this is completely reasonable.
However, it bothers me that this process isn't about a new administration bringing in their new team in an orderly process.
This process will taint good people due to the way it is being handled.
This process will also not result in bad people leaving and good people coming in.
What will happen is people without any clout will go and people with clout will be put in their place. On one level, that doesn't bother me because I think it is legit for the Gov and his allies to control patronage jobs. However don't bill it as getting rid of bad people.
And if Quinn really wanted to change Illinois politics, he should set up a process for bringing in the best and the brightest from around the country and supporting them. That is a game-changer. But instead, we are seeing the Who's out with the old boss, in with the same boss.
Mike Ins
· 7 months ago
Complaints Generally:
Can we separate personal complaints from whether this is good policy as currently written?
Leaving out who-should-have-accepted-what-when and what is legal to do to non-union employees (believe me, all the 2XEs have been in at will positions their entire lives and always will, so you are preaching to the choir there my friends), that isnt the same as whether it is good policy.
In my view, disagreed with many here, having the executive branch focus on reviewing 3,000 employees in 60 days while the state lacks a capital bill, has a 12 billion deficit, and cannot pay vendors on time due to deficit, is not the time to undertake the most massive HR scramble ever conducted by the state, while also all the leadership is, at the agency level, for that 60 days, decapitated or impotent.
Regardless of the "fairness" of it, from a policy standpoint it is a priority, but not "the" priority at the moment.
Just my opinion, I know many disagree.
MrSpeaker
· 7 months ago
Mike Ins, that is about the time frame of normal transition Nov 4- Jan 1- they have 60 days, just like the president had but ObjecDem is right, it's normal to change employees but Quinn has insulted many many good state employees by his tired rhetoric of "reform" and "fumigate", many of those people worked the precincts so he could be LTGov. You can be sure they will be knocking on doors for LM.
Double Exempt
· 7 months ago
Mike Ins, I couldn't have said it better.
I too have been an at will employee my entire career. And I am also aware of many friends and professional collegues who have recently been through mass-firings in the private sector, or are in the process now. Having the ax hovering over your neck and not knowing when, or if, it will fall is an awful experience for anybody. That surely explains some of the panic expressed on the blog.
I think what really ticks me off - as a double exempt employee - is the assumption in the press and by many bloggers that all double exempt employees are know-nothing political hacks who have never worked a full day in their life and don't expect to. Being equated to cockroaches or other vermin is also rather insulting.
I know many won't believe me, but there are double exempt employees out there that really do work hard, have struggled to keep things running, tried to stop the wrongdoings within their power to change and don't have political clout. Yet they all need to be fumigated. Oh wait, maybe if they suck up to Quinn and/or Madigan enough they'll hire them back. That makes it all soooo much better.
I don't have a problem with the concept of getting rid of people, it happens. I'll be honest, I hope it doesn't happen to me. It's the way it's being done that really cuts to the quick.
Rich, your right, nobody who is an at will employee - private or government - has the "right" to control how their evaluated or removed. But, does that mean we shouldn't complain if it's not fair? Shouldn't we strive for fair? Or maybe, at least, try to treat people with a little respect instead of using them as political pawns? I thought actions like this are what everyone had been complaining about during the last administration.
Mike Ins
· 7 months ago
MrSpeaker:
Dont disagree, but in my agency some of the PSA and SPSA have been around for 25 - 35 years, in fact, all in my direct chain of command until the Deputy/Agency Director level. Those people have someone managed to "survive" 25 - 35 years of changed administrations of every type and stripe... and now, not being looked at first and then fired, but fired first and then looked at. Ok, so be it I suppose.
It seems to me the process works best if the Gov puts in "his people" in the management spots and then those people in turn put their people in.
It does not make sense to me that you fire/hire paralegals every change of administration. Yes, certainly that is fair game. Understood. That could be done every change of administration. Lisa Madigan may have her list of nurse case managers and paralegals ready to go for her transition, but I doubt it.
Lucy
· 7 months ago
Whistleblower your are correct. Bill (cellini), Unions are great unless you are at the bottom/new hires(less than 5yrs). I like madigans idea/bill. It will help weed out the conspirators(senior manageemnt, administrators, board members) that were placed under blago's watch to influence state policy for personal gain, ex: gambling and horseracing. Who knows maybe madigan has a list of people under federal investigation. Which ever at least the citizens of illinois will not continue to pay their pensions!
MrSpeaker
· 7 months ago
Yes, MikeIns, I guess i wasn't thinking about the paralegals and whatnot, you are right it's not good policy to keep replacing 3,000 every four- eight years. but Quinn has not wrapped his brain around this and I think he was hoping if he fired a few non essentials no one would notice he has kept all the agency directors and deputies aka patronage workers. He was kind enough to fire young press people who have rent, student loans,and now a huge blight on their resumes...didn't he actually campaign for the previous governor?
Ms Port Belly Mushroom
· 7 months ago
Like the other double exempts who are embracing the darkness, there is no reason to go out whining. There was life before state government and there will be life after state government. Be grateful for ride!
ILPundit
· 7 months ago
Rich, I read CapFax this am, and I would make two points:
First, not everyone in Quinn land is thrilled about this. In fact, you can probably divide the people who are thrilled and those who are not into the camps of those people who understand the mechanics of state hiring and appointments, and those that don't. The less you understand, the more one seems to like this.
Second, even if the bill is amended as you suggest, its still going to be a huge problem for Quinn. Half the reason Quinn hasn't "fumigated" is because he doesn't have a good handle on a pool of potential appointees, or a workable process to find new fresh faces. This legislation doesn't change those problems, it exacerbates them.
No doubt if Quinn swallows this, Madigan will have a very long list of "recommendations"...which frankly, is probably the actual point behind much of this
If Quinn wants to fumigate, he already has the ability.
Rich Miller
· 7 months ago
===This legislation doesn’t change those problems, it exacerbates them.===
I would disagree. It forces him to get moving, which is what he's needed for a while now. Necessity being the mother of invention that it is.
CORRECTIONS
· 7 months ago
Here's how this works for Corrections. Currently we can not get anyone to step out of the Union to take double exempt postions, Assistant Wardens/ Wardens/DD's on up. So essentially the prisons are ran by people who do not know what they are doing. Now with this legislation, NOT even qualified individuals will step forward for these jobs. Why should protected PSA"s who make 117,000 dollars a year move up to a Warden position or Deputy Director position? This legislation only creates more of a public safety hazard for everyone in IDOC. Why not pull in resumes and get rid of those with no experience and keep those in place who have experience. It is a fair process that way and may attract experienced folks into the positions of leadership. If the legislation passes there will be no Wardens/ A/W in prisons or Deputy Directors giving operational direction. The public safety will be affected.
State Worker
· 7 months ago
It's about time someone stood up for the crazy mess we are in. I know first hand in the Department of Juvenile Justice we have a Director that was just appointed by Blago before the arrest. A do nothing hack. And 2 Deputy Directors that have been temporary assigned for years. I have seen people hired into administrative posts with NO prior experience just because of who they know or are married to. These kids that we are accountable for don't even go to school by law while locked up. They are a disgrace to the agency.
Gives me a headache
· 7 months ago
This may have already been stated... or not, but didn't the current gov get his job as Lt Gov due to the former gov's ability to get elected? Shouldn't that somehow tie him to this group of 3,000? Also, if the 3,000 or so are removed, just who exactly will run the show? I'm assuming 3,000 or close to that would have to be appointed. Doesn't that put us right back in the same position? New names... same probable political-type hires?
disgusted
· 7 months ago
This is the best piece of legislation in recent Illinois history. Thanks to Speaker Madigan for cutting through the bull and creating action for change. We really need a new start, whether these people are good folks or not, we need talent and talent unblemished by the blago era.
seriously
· 7 months ago
what is this about his wifes board being insulated? tell me more about this holy and totally without reproach mike madigan...
TiredOFItAll
· 7 months ago
So it is about time someone is forcing the cleanup...but how successful will it be when agencies are trying now to quickly get term appointments switched to regular full time status...Will anyone be watching that? And do we really need 30 or so 'Special Assistants' to diretors staff (in just one agency)???????????
Plorhanda
· 7 months ago
Rich, Pull out the Clout List and publish it again. This Clout List should be the firing list.
anon
· 7 months ago
There will never be reform in this state as long as Madigan is around.
Jay SeaBee
· 7 months ago
I am of the opinion that the placing of the PSA's, AA's, Exec's into the union was a calculated move on the part of Blago's people as a way to ensure they would be able to remain in government somewhat easier if a situation as now exists came to pass.
Andy M
· 7 months ago
Thanks Mike for giving us republicans 3000 experienced campaign workers and fundraisers. Hopefully some of them used to be close to you and will help expose some of your skeletons.
All Comments
I cannot imagine any other industry where leaders talk about "fumigating," that is killing insects, in regards to their work force.
There are undoubtedly some state employees that should be fired and replaced with more qualified employees. Some of these people were brought in by Blago and some were there before. But overall, the vast majority of state employees are decent hard working people and shouldn't be treated so poorly.
Thank you. I will keep my rants to a minimum. I just would like to be judged by my performance and I hope I have the chance to argue my case.
Why, naturaully... Mass firing of some-as-yet-unsettled-subset of state workers! Taxes increased for all state residents! Services cut! Unpaid furlough days for all state workers! Promised pensions under and un-funded for state workers!
Did someone say "distraction"? Hahah.
So..why is Quinn so afraid of firing anybody. He says he has gumption, but where's the beef. I guess the "gumption" will come in when hits up the middle class for a regressive tax increase in the middle of a recession. That's apparently a lot easier than listening to the weeping and wailing of state employees losing their cushy $90 and $100k jobs or standing up to employees unions.
Hopefully, some news outlets will put together a list of the 3000, who represent a small fraction
of the approximately 60,000 state work force.
It would be interesting to see their salaries and start dates and "sponsors." Surely, this is public information. We will no doubt find a plethora of "associate deputy directors" and "assistant associate deputy directors" with hefty salaries and close ties to the Democratic party.
Plus quite a few elderly lifers with 30+ years in who have somehow managed to get their terms renewed. In this economic environment, I don't have any problem with these folks having to reapply for their jobs. It'll be good for 'em-wake 'em up a bit, and maybe we can get rid of some deadwood.
But last, my hearts going out to all the good, hardworking, clean as can be state employees that have to wait this out. The ol' too often said 'been there, done that' rattle is hitting home for me. As one who was kicked around and toyed with last year, I know how some of these employees are feeling-to have somebody stand over you with their hand on the edge of the run and threaten to yank it out from under you. So for the most part, just wanted to say that I'm hoping sanity rules here and those who have been with the state and worked hard and ethical all their lives get through this and that I hope the big dogs will someday learn to stop using people as bargaining chips. We're humans guys, not toys.
From a purely organizational standpoint, you should have a pilot program which goes through the steps needed to achieve your goals on a smaller scale and see how it works out.
It is highly unlikely that the first method you try will be the correct one and improvements would benefit the succeeding reorganizations.
Trying to reorganize everything at once is a recipe for failure.
I do believe that a person who has gotten his/her job through political means has the ability to perform well in their position. They should only be removed from their position under two conditions. They do not do their job well or the position is redundant and can be accomplished with a smaller head count in the department or branch.
Specifically - nurse managers? Engineers? Attorneys?
Thanks.
Removing corrupt employees appointed through criminal enterprises has to be a priority and this bill helps expedite the process but there are many exceptions and exceptional employees that need to be kept.
14 years of crooks appointing people to govern this state is a long time. Boy is this state screwed up.
I guess it's possible it provides him cover to get rid of the folks Madigan REALLY wants gone, perhaps some of Quinn's friends or those with political sponsors he doesn't want to anger.
He can say, "Look, the writing's on the wall. I'm going to have problems with Madigan if you stick around. I have too much to do. My hands are tied. Sorry, but so long."
Still, given the recent focus by Collins' Reform Commission on the GA and particularly leaders, I think there's a Velvet Hammer message in Madigan's bill: You want reform? Get your own house in order before you start peddling that stuff my way.
I also take a bit of exception to Madigan's reasoning, which I found superfluous. It's true that under the Constitution, the GA impeached and convicted Blago, making Quinn governor. But it's also true that Quinn is governor because, under the Constitution, the Lt. Guv assumes the office upon a vacancy.
The reason for the vacancy is irrelevant. In other words, Quinn isn't half-a-governor because of how he got the office. And as Rich pointed out, as governor, Quinn has an awful lot of of power when it comes to legislation passed by the GA.
Double exempt (refering to being exempt from Rtuan hiring requirements and the Personnel Code) covers many positions.
Many are attorneys at various levels, SPSAs that have worked their way up or are recent hires, some are Admins or Paralegals, many are mid level managers(many long-time state employees) and most, if not all, high level positions, Director, Deputy Director, General Counsel, etc. are double exempt.
Depending on the agency it could just mean a few top people, it could also mean eliminating the whole upper and mid-leve management or even an entire division in some circumstances (especially legal related positions). A lot of long-term institutional knowledge and experience from those who really did earn their jobs could be lost, and along with it the people who may know best how to try and fix the many existing problems facing IL.
I wonder what that would do to state employee moral and whether it would effect IL residents getting their services. Something to ponder.
Second, and I think the subscriber only analysis did not give this concern enough weight, a large layoff of top level staff across state government at every agency would be very, very disruptive. Even if this bill is scaled back from 3,000 potential layoffs to just several hundred, you're still talking about a loss of all top decision makers at every agency, and a bureaucratic nightmare of trying to review who to reappoint and which positions need to be filled with new applicants, who does the screening, interviewing and selecting of the new employees and how that process is sensitive to the political pressure for each situation. The only way to accomplish that feat would be to implement a highly centralized hiring process run out of the Governor's office, you know, like the one that was highly criticized and problematic in the past.
As an operational idea, this is foolish and irrational. I'm not going to criticize the commenters who see this as a power grab by the legislative branch and a political wilting by the executive. I think they may be right.
RJW, hang in there. You know that there are many people, and their families, in the same boat as you and yours. We'll hope for the best.
Objective Dem, you raise an often-ignored point. Apparently the Three Tops could give a rat's behind about the morale in State government or the ability to recruit beyond the Crook County line for qualified professionals to fill important State positions. What a pathetic legacy to leave behind after all the years of service.
Not long ago the only employee who made 6 figures was the Executive Director.
Now it's close to fifty individuals raking it in.
Wake up Quinn!
As I read this, if I were Quinn I would love it because I can enjoy the power of keeping the wheat and throwing out the chaff, and have the political cover of Legislative collaboration and the legal cover of it being a state law - noone comes back to sue, like when Blago dumped 50 for a press release.
Governor Pat Quinn, Senate President John Cullerton, and House Speaker Michael Madigan are using double-exempt employees to make an unjustified, politically vitriolic statement and IT STINKS to high heaven. Each of them are lawyers and should understand the arbitrary and capricous nature of theis proposal, which may ultimately be deemed unconsitutional.
How in the world can the legislative branch tell the executive brach whom to hire? Overreaching and dangerous...
And I am waiting for a Capitol Fax Stimulus Plan before signing up for a sub. Commencing to hold breath in 3, 2, .....
No, 3000 people won't lose their jobs. Yes, the agency heads should go. But to go beyond the agency heads is crazy -- especially now when nearly every agency is understaffed.
Calm down? Sure. But Quinn should simply zero in on the folks he knows are bad news -- and we know he knows this -- and demand their resignations. And then -- for the love of god -- move on and get Illinois State government back up and running.
Quinn was apparently too inept or scared or compromised to replace anybody so Madigan is doing it for him.
The notion that these 3000 folks are likely so valuable and critical to state government functioning that we have to keep them on the job because nobody else could do it is totally absurd. There are many thousands of professionals looking for work right now. This is a great time to find some new people.
Nobody is indispensable although I suspect we are likely to hear from a great many who think they are.
OK, but in my opinion those are exactly the type of people who should be changed when a new boss comes in.
With respect terminating the exempt employees, this clearly violates the separation of powers limitation in the constitution. The Governor is in charge of operating the executive branch. He can-within the budget set by the GA-execute those functions how he pleases. That is what he was elected to do. Whether Quinn signs the bill or not is irrelevant-ask a lawyer.
The problem is if Quinn honors the bill and asks people to leave his is essentially firing them and the bill is irrelevant, making a legal challenge somewhat difficult. It would not be the first time the GA had overstepped their constitutional bounds, but it sounds an awful lot like someone they complained about. The GA did not want Blago interfering in their operations and labeled him a dictator for doing so by calling endless special sessions. These actions go even further. The Ga should worry about passing ethic reform and capital bill. Leave the executive branch to the governor
Both Madigan and Quinn are using the term "fumigate." Now the term is being used by the MSM.
This term is offensive because it equates double exempt state employees with vermin and insects. It also inaccurately gives the general public the impression that there is widespread corruption in government.
Second, there will be double exempt employees replaced because they don't have the right clout. They may have been a Blago person, but honest and smart. Or they may have been associated with a Blago ally who is now on the outs with Quinn. Or they may simply have a job that Quinn or Madigan want for one of their people. But rather than losing their job due to normal political turnover of administrations; they are being "fumigated" and removed. They become tainted as corrupt or incompetent.
And by the way, I can guarantee that some of the most incompetent employees will keep their job because they have clout.
I find this whole process inappropriate and ineffective.
Boy, that really sounds like the kind of thing Blagojevich would say about his own proposed actions, especially on amendatory vetoes. It's that populist tyranny stance we got to know so well during the previous administration.
But c'mon, nothing changes. THe positions are still "double exempt" and subject to a political process. What changed? Openings for "others" to weigh in on.
So it bad for me and my young family, but hey, that's life... going out in this economy not going to be fun and I truly enjoyed my time with the state and it bothers me to be jerked around like this...
... but in the end it's pretty obvious, despite what people would have you believe on these message boards and what-not, that financially private world much much much more lucrative for the majority of the professionals that will be let go.
Most double-exempts will, within a year, be making more money, significantly more, than they do at the state, so that is a silver lining.
That was an absolutely breathtaking comment. Have you already forgotten George Ryan and Rod Blagojevich? Are you insane?
However, I have a great fear that the replacements will be unqualified political hacks as well.
How can anyone have confidence that the replacements will be qualified and committed as opposed to politically sponsored?
Gov Quinn: I suggest creating a bipartisan commission to review the resumes and then hire the most qualified replacements.
Is that exactly the type of thing Quinn has clamored for the last thirty years? Will Quinn live up to all of his preaching? Not so far....
Rich, any idea on whether the fumigation efforts could oust people in jobs which are union jobs?
Here's the problem with that, at least from one agency's prespective.
In the old days, there were mostly figurehead "Deputy Directors" at IDOT who you might miss a few if they all were fired. When Blago came in, he created several more Deputy positions, folding in all the old District Engineer positions which were the lifeblood of operation, direction and institutional knowledge.
Quinn gets rid of all the Department heads and Deputies, and any other double exempts at IDOT and now you miss most of them, and the place is even more dysfunctional than it is now...plus, Quinn's "organization" and tentacles do not have a deep bench, so who is he going to pick to replace these folks? Either he fills them with hacks he doesn't know well, or puts the same people back in place for expediency's sake.
Lots of downside and very little apparent upside here. A targeted Orkin Man, rather than a fumigation truck, seems to be in order.
Basically, if you give you and yours get, there is a "clout" list floating around for years, Tribune had it, just take a look and get rid of the people on it, that would take care of most of the problems. But the real problem is campaign finance reform, that is where th $ponsor$ have too much power on hiring in the governor's branch but the governor need$ them to campaign..and so it goes. Blagojevich did not invent this broken system in Illinois.
Zero. Just try to take a few deep breaths.
When he was impeached, there was plenty of outrage and plenty of apparent momentum to undo the tarnised last acts of his governorship. There were bills that were signed as a direct result of the pay to play shenanigans that got him locked up. THere were bills he signed that had to do with matters discussed by his inner circle on federal wiretaps -- the signing of the bill to extend horseracing subsidy (a horrible, horrible policy in the first place) is key among them.
We thought those bills would quickly get undone...but our lawmakers have done very little to give us any assurance that they are going to undo the taint Blago left on our state.
So, our leaders should worry less about the people and do more to roll back Blago's crooked actions..for the benefit of our state and to send the message to we taxpayers that the "new era" is upon us. As time wastes away... so does the outrage and I fear we'll be no better off months from now.
Also, some agencies that practice administrative law will suffer and/or be paralyzed as administrative law judges are double-exempt.
Cassandra is right - the graveyard is full of "irreplaceable" people, as the cliche goes. On the other hand, some valuable knowledge will inevitably be lost and morale will not be good. But these are all survivable things, and this coming from a double-exempt definitely on the firing line.
However... it is still a distraction... what changes? Just a ton of positions that need to be filled/vetted/etc when the leadership should be focusing on the budget issues but will not be. Will instead be focusing on endless requests to save this guy or that girl, etc. etc.
Again - $12Billion deficit, capital bill, tax increases... and all that going to be knocked aside in a battle over whether executive employees going to summarily fired OR term-limits for legislative leaders (Horror of horrors!) might happen.
Good, bad or indifferent, can we all agree that this is a distraction from the real issues facing this state?
That seems a little unrealistic to me. If it is true the public should ask why hire any back then?
No.
Hope no one has a nursing license renewal coming up anytime soon that has to go through hearing (or any of the other professions regulated).
Honestly get that in now, get your professional licenses renewed now if it coming up in the next 6 months.
Incorrect.
Read the bill. They're gone only if Quinn doesn't rehire them by the end of the transition period.
Take a freaking breath.
you dont need a sponsor to be double exempt. my position is professional. i did not have any backing. i interviewed just like you would in the private sector
cassandra
your thougts on state employee are old. fire me for doing my job just so someone else can hav i. stupid
"Re-hire" suggests you must first be "fired", what am I not getting?
That said, I do to take a breath, or a drink! Or both. I'll give you that hahah. I am seriously not fun to be around today!
I'm sure Madigan made other statements regarding his reasons for "fumigating" the State. But this statement indicates that the fumigation isn't just about corruption or incompetence; it is about getting rid of people who aren't giving the legislators what they want. The reality is some of these people may just be difficult and not capable of finding a win-win solution. But I'm sure there are a number of other people who stood up to Madigan and the legislature because it was the right thing to do. Believe it or not, sometimes legislators come up with very stupid ideas that are not practical or legal or affordable and the executive branch has to say no to them. This "fumigation" process will make it much harder for executive branch employees to say no to legislators in the future.
Under DHS, for instance, the Howe Developmental Center and Tinley Park Mental Health Center were decertified by the federal government in 2007 because patients were unnecessarily drugged or restrained without medical justification.
Howe lost $30 million from the federal government last year because of DHS' years of "experience" and "professionalism".
Madigan is right. Clean house. Finally.
Excellent examples of "under the radar" single exempt positions include agency legislative liaisons and personnel liaisons. These positions are typically PSA Option 1 positions and are almost exclusively filled with political hacks. They do not have to be posted, and frankly, there really is no interview process. Filling of single exempt positions is in many, many instances completely political. The only vetting process is a political one. Hiring is rarely, if ever, based on merit. Many current incumbents of single exempt positions had zero experience when given their job and continue to exhibit total incompetence to date. Most are unbelievably inept.
There are a large no. of qualified SPSA single exempt incumbents. In such cases, they should welcome the Gov's vetting process to rid their ranks of the hacks. All Rutan exempt positions and their incumbents should be evaluated both for the necessity of the position and the qualifications of the incumbent. Legislative and personnel liaisons (PSAs) were at the heart of corrupt hiring and agency actions over the past 10 years. Ask anyone who works in state gov't. These folks were political hires and are now trying to hide under Civil Service protection. Shine the light on them and re-evaluate these positions.
Identify some of the most troubled state agencies. Then recruit a Director using a nationwide search and let them know that they can bring in a handful of key staff. Give them 3 months to create a turn-around plan and then support them. When they want to get rid of political hacks, support them.
The second rec is whatever you do, don't appoint someone you met and seem like a good person, even though they don't have any real experience, as Director. And especially don't do this at a critical agency like the State Police. That would indicate you value personal connections more than knowledge and experience. And they could embarrass you because they won't understand those weird government rules like FOIA. (oops, I'm a little late with this rec.)
And it has to be said that this is a pretty large intrusion by the GA into the executive branch, even if one understands the rationale. I can't see anything good coming from this.
Any SPSA appointed by Blago should be reviewed right now. If they are not up to snuff reassign them to sit in a corner and do not renew their term. A lot less efficient than firing them immediately but avoids the lawsuits that happened when Gov. F- Bomb fired folks by press release.
General Counsels who are SPSAs--especially--should be included in this. The attorney at EPA who was a Deputy Chief of staff and who was blended back into the woodwork before Quinn took over helped shoehorn favors to plenty of Blago cronies.
Now he sits comfortably at IEPA paring his nails and laughing. The same with other GCs who helped massage Blagojevich personnel moves, grant rationalizations and FOIA denials. These are attorneys who should have known better (of course, Rod, Lon, Wyma, Harris, et al, were also attorneys so I'm not sure that has anything to do with it). But I certainly don't think they deserve an exemption because of some claim of rational distance or the even less convincing "institutional knowledge."
There are quite a few attorneys out there who would tell you they are "quick studies" and more than willing to get themselves up to speed on agency issues.
So, no, agency attorneys definitely should not get a pass. Their institutional memory certainly didn't stop them from giving a legal rubber stamp to plenty of Blagojevich shenanigans.
Good try, though.
I'm not a lawyer, but perhaps firing the exempt PSAs by operation of law avoids the civil service protection cluster? Or, maybe by firing all of them without exception the arguments used to combat political firings are undermined.
Someone please figure it out. All are tired of seeing the system gamed.
All agency attorneys are double-exempt. While every aency has a General Counsel or Chief Legal COunsel, there are many, many legal counsel or legal staff who are not appointed by the Governor or confirmed by the Senate that would be covered under this legislation.
Should agency attorneys be terminated to make room for the many private sector attorneys pining for a state job? Where the fairness and logic in that?
Rumor has it that Madigan is attempting to make "room" for his people in the executive state agencies. Who's running thsi state anyway?
I wish you absolutely nothing but the best and I have empathy for what you must be going through right now. But, you certainly know as a double exempt employee you have no right to make any demands about how you can be evaluated or removed. You're totally at-will.
I dont EXPECT to be anything other than "at will" ever. And I am not naive enough to believe that my career will be based on merit only, or my performance solely. That isnt true at any employment situation.
... I can say all that and still think that a cutting of all 2XEs simultaneously and subject the rehiring of the exact same positions is bad policy... created by Quinn's failure to act, admittedly.
The reason I think it bad policy is not because I "own" my job, but rather because, as someone points out above, I do not believe the "rehire" process will be "untainted".
That's all. I dont think anyone misunderstands that an Agency Director at IDOT is a powerful position and needs to be reviewed. However, again, for every Agency Director, you've got a half-dozen paralegals copying files in a back-room somewhere. Are those paralegals going to get a "fair review"? Maybe. Maybe not.
But life isnt fair and win some, lose some, sometimes it rains.
As far as this bill, I see it as a full-employment act for lawyers as it will spawn hundreds of lawsuits if it passes and is implemented.
"If you fire me from my ill-gotten political patronage job that I was unqualified to fill, I'll sue!"
Doubtful in this economy.
Well it sure isn't Blago anymore and those who were appointed to a political position by the most corrupt Governor in this States history would be wise to get their ducks in a row and be prepared to defend their job performance.
I am sure many posters indignation is righteous but the former Governor and his administration tarnished the state to the point where every appointment should be examined.
Governor Quinn is much more patient and forgiving than I would have been. The Blagojevich administration didn't give him the respect he deserved as LT and I am amazed he didn't clean house immediately.
I think it's safe to say that everyone who got a state job from Len Small is now dead.
Ive been telling you 2xes and 1xes to organize yourselves into a union for a long time. Many of you have. Some of you can't but the rest of you liked to think of yourselves as "bosses" and as "management" who would never accept being anything but adversairal with "labor". Well, you see now how that turned out. Good luck. Maybe you can find an apprenticeship somewhere.
I definitely agree with you that double-exempt employees are hired and fired at the will of the Governor and have no job security. And I think this is completely reasonable.
However, it bothers me that this process isn't about a new administration bringing in their new team in an orderly process.
This process will taint good people due to the way it is being handled.
This process will also not result in bad people leaving and good people coming in.
What will happen is people without any clout will go and people with clout will be put in their place. On one level, that doesn't bother me because I think it is legit for the Gov and his allies to control patronage jobs. However don't bill it as getting rid of bad people.
And if Quinn really wanted to change Illinois politics, he should set up a process for bringing in the best and the brightest from around the country and supporting them. That is a game-changer. But instead, we are seeing the Who's out with the old boss, in with the same boss.
Can we separate personal complaints from whether this is good policy as currently written?
Leaving out who-should-have-accepted-what-when and what is legal to do to non-union employees (believe me, all the 2XEs have been in at will positions their entire lives and always will, so you are preaching to the choir there my friends), that isnt the same as whether it is good policy.
In my view, disagreed with many here, having the executive branch focus on reviewing 3,000 employees in 60 days while the state lacks a capital bill, has a 12 billion deficit, and cannot pay vendors on time due to deficit, is not the time to undertake the most massive HR scramble ever conducted by the state, while also all the leadership is, at the agency level, for that 60 days, decapitated or impotent.
Regardless of the "fairness" of it, from a policy standpoint it is a priority, but not "the" priority at the moment.
Just my opinion, I know many disagree.
I too have been an at will employee my entire career. And I am also aware of many friends and professional collegues who have recently been through mass-firings in the private sector, or are in the process now. Having the ax hovering over your neck and not knowing when, or if, it will fall is an awful experience for anybody. That surely explains some of the panic expressed on the blog.
I think what really ticks me off - as a double exempt employee - is the assumption in the press and by many bloggers that all double exempt employees are know-nothing political hacks who have never worked a full day in their life and don't expect to. Being equated to cockroaches or other vermin is also rather insulting.
I know many won't believe me, but there are double exempt employees out there that really do work hard, have struggled to keep things running, tried to stop the wrongdoings within their power to change and don't have political clout. Yet they all need to be fumigated. Oh wait, maybe if they suck up to Quinn and/or Madigan enough they'll hire them back. That makes it all soooo much better.
I don't have a problem with the concept of getting rid of people, it happens. I'll be honest, I hope it doesn't happen to me. It's the way it's being done that really cuts to the quick.
Rich, your right, nobody who is an at will employee - private or government - has the "right" to control how their evaluated or removed. But, does that mean we shouldn't complain if it's not fair? Shouldn't we strive for fair? Or maybe, at least, try to treat people with a little respect instead of using them as political pawns? I thought actions like this are what everyone had been complaining about during the last administration.
Dont disagree, but in my agency some of the PSA and SPSA have been around for 25 - 35 years, in fact, all in my direct chain of command until the Deputy/Agency Director level. Those people have someone managed to "survive" 25 - 35 years of changed administrations of every type and stripe... and now, not being looked at first and then fired, but fired first and then looked at. Ok, so be it I suppose.
It seems to me the process works best if the Gov puts in "his people" in the management spots and then those people in turn put their people in.
It does not make sense to me that you fire/hire paralegals every change of administration. Yes, certainly that is fair game. Understood. That could be done every change of administration. Lisa Madigan may have her list of nurse case managers and paralegals ready to go for her transition, but I doubt it.
First, not everyone in Quinn land is thrilled about this. In fact, you can probably divide the people who are thrilled and those who are not into the camps of those people who understand the mechanics of state hiring and appointments, and those that don't. The less you understand, the more one seems to like this.
Second, even if the bill is amended as you suggest, its still going to be a huge problem for Quinn. Half the reason Quinn hasn't "fumigated" is because he doesn't have a good handle on a pool of potential appointees, or a workable process to find new fresh faces. This legislation doesn't change those problems, it exacerbates them.
No doubt if Quinn swallows this, Madigan will have a very long list of "recommendations"...which frankly, is probably the actual point behind much of this
If Quinn wants to fumigate, he already has the ability.
I would disagree. It forces him to get moving, which is what he's needed for a while now. Necessity being the mother of invention that it is.