Does this mean Tom Cross finally has a clue regarding how to operate as a minority party?
Willie Stark
· 7 months ago
What I particularly appreciated about the Tribune's editorial is that it was heedless of the sacrosanct recommendations of the Illinois Reform Commission's holy men and women. They, you will recall, could not reach a consensus on recall so declined to endorse it. So, even when lawmakers act in a way consistent with the IRC's recommendations (which they have done far more, so far, than the ed boards seem capable of understanding), they are condemned.
wordslinger
· 7 months ago
The Tribune has the zealotry of the recently converted. When was their Road to Damascus moment? When Zell was interviewed by the Feds on his Blago dealings?
Of the 61 legislators listed, I'm betting the old Pharisee Tribune endorsed a majority of them.
Middle of the Road
· 7 months ago
How about an amendment that requires all members of the General Assembly be 70 years old and up. Takes care of term limits. No lawyers. Takes care of professional theives. Problems solved.
Rich Miller
· 7 months ago
===So, even when lawmakers act in a way consistent with the IRC’s recommendations (which they have done far more, so far, than the ed boards seem capable of understanding), they are condemned. ===
LOL.
Excellent point.
Obamarama
· 7 months ago
Ok enough with the recall already. The GA (and OpEd boards & Governor for that matter) have bigger fish to fry. What a senseless distraction with so little time left in the legislative session.
Louis G. Atsaves
· 7 months ago
What is missing in Rich's argument and everyone else's arguments is that for the first time that I can recall, newspapers are paying closer attention to procedures in Springfield and their intended results and consequences.
What is a "game" to Springfield types is viewed as a legislative process gone wrong in the rest of the state. Love or hate his tactics, Cross has struck a nerve.
That spot light must be pretty uncomfortable right about now for many legislators and elected officials.
siriusly
· 7 months ago
One of the real problems with Blago is that he was shaking down state contractors for money. The reform commission and the Tribune need to demand that the General Assembly ban contributions from state contractors.
Oh wait - The General Assembly already passed that law last year because they found out (thanks to the Tribune in part) what was going on.
Next, the General Assembly should make it illegal for a Governor to use his office to make appointments or his other official powers for personal gain. Oh, wait - that's already illegal.
The Reform Commission, Andy Shaw, and the Chicago Tribune need to get a grip on reality here and stop using Blagojevich as an excuse to harung the legislative leaders, Speaker Madigan in particular.
Speaker Madigan was the only legislative leader who stood up to Rod Blagojevich and he was the only one who stopped him from getting his hands in the capital plan cookie jar. The Tribune and the Daily Herald bashed Madigan for his part in the in-fighting, they haven't ever yet conceded that Madigan was right all along.
Perhaps if they start with that acknowledgement, they might see light of day for some of their other "reforms." But bashing the one who needs to pass the bills and blaming him for problems that were really created by Blago - ain't gonna cut it.
BriRei
· 7 months ago
I know Rich, we just don't understand.
moron
· 7 months ago
"One of the only advantages to being in the minority is that you can play lots of political games ... The game here is that the Republicans know fully well that their motions to discharge will be squashed ... "
One man's little media show is another's doing the people's work. Trying to get legislators on the record on issues is important. Should a minority just sit there and shut up?
Rich Miller
· 7 months ago
=== Should a minority just sit there and shut up?===
Certainly not. But one should also recognize this for what it is.
moron
· 7 months ago
" ... Republicans know fully well that their motions to discharge will be squashed ... "
That hardly means it's a wast of time.
" ... the House GOP has been doing this stuff all session. They’ll get behind some hot-button issue, make a motion to discharge it from committee, the Democrats will block it, the Republicans will force a floor vote on whether to sustain or override the chair, the Democrats win the partisan vote and then the Republicans’ campaign operation will blast thousands of negative robocalls into targeted Democratic districts."
Um, isn't that sorta how one hopes a minority in a legislature will act, on a good day?
moron
· 7 months ago
" ... the Tribune’s editorial page - which has its tonality levels constantly set to “Outraged†... "
What's the appropriate tone for editorializing on IL state gov?
Rich Miller
· 7 months ago
They can do whatever they want, moron. Just like you. It's a free country. And I was just making an observation.
You Go Boy
· 7 months ago
The overal contempt both parties show for "the people" is nauseating. It's all an inside game designed to fool the citizenry and one-up each other in clever/childish ways. The lower eschelon pols use the "leaders" for cover and reason not to do much when all's said and done.
moron
· 7 months ago
"The sausage-making process appears to drive newspaper editorial boards around the bend."
Urging readers to contact their legislators is around the bend?
Why can't the editors just chill & let the pros in Springfield do their jobs?
Rich Miller
· 7 months ago
===Urging readers to contact their legislators is around the bend? ===
You didn't read the rest of that excerpt?
You're too funny, moron. Nitpick away and take all out of context even though we can all see the context. What a funny moron.
Rich Miller
· 7 months ago
Also, moron, since when is it some sort of a crime to try and inform people when a game is being played?
Easy
· 7 months ago
you can say what you want about him, but so far Emil has showed himself to be more of a reformer than Cullerton or Madigan.
Rich Miller
· 7 months ago
===so far Emil has showed himself to be more of a reformer than Cullerton or Madigan.===
Could you explain that one?
If you define "reformer" as someone who passes a bill, that might be the case, but I'm not sure how. If you define reformer as someone who tries to avoid, um, shall we say, unsavory arrangements, then you can't possibly say that.
Obamarama
· 7 months ago
===you can say what you want about him, but so far Emil has showed himself to be more of a reformer than Cullerton or Madigan. ===
But honestly, one cannot legitimately suggest and defend reform credentials for Emil given his relationship with Blago during their concurring tenures.
Rich Miller
· 7 months ago
Perhaps Easy will return and explain him/herself. One can only hope.
Ghost
· 7 months ago
Was not one of COllins experienced comissions reform ideas to force bills to vote based on a small amount of co-sponsors?
Just imagine the kind of games such a "reform" would create.
Again I say, are we really making the system better with many of the proposed reforms, or are we really just puting in more hurdles and technicalities to naviagte just for the sake of taking what we have and making it different.
Anonymous
· 7 months ago
Reform or not, This entire legislative body should be voted out of office for allowing Blago and company to create the mess we are now facing. Especially the leadership on both sides of the aisle.
Anonymous45
· 7 months ago
I think both Cullerton and Emil II both leave alot to be desired...what should us peons who weren't invited to the online lovefest with Harmon, Raoul, and Schoenberg make of this PR stunt? Is there a generational split in reform efforts within the IL Senate? Or is it that these youngsters haven't been there long enough to love the system that has perpetuated the graft? I couldn't help crediting Cullerton for his deft usage of his younger members for political cover...
Boxing Cross
· 7 months ago
The edit board noise shows: 1. how easily they can be duped 2.how quickly all their rants can be ignored 3. how easy it is to them to ignore their own Wrigley and ESOP scandals Shades of their Wrigley Field lights scandal
BTW lets remember they Circular Firing Squad is the snrinking minority becuase of their attempts to make hay with procedural roll calls
moron
· 7 months ago
"Was not one of COllins experienced comissions reform ideas to force bills to vote based on a small amount of co-sponsors?"
Respecting the rights of the minority, respecting the rights of individual legislators even, fighting for up-or-down votes, getting legislators on record - aren't games, isn't that just basic good govt, what we fought for on the beaches? What am I missing here?
L.S.
· 7 months ago
So, The Chicago Tribune is now the voice of "The People" ? Madigan, who was the ONLY one to fight off Blago's attempts to steal even more is now "The Enemy" and Emil Jones was a "Reformer" ...It must be May in Springfield.
Rich Miller
· 7 months ago
"We" fought on the beaches so that a small handful of legislators could bypass committees and perpetually tie up the GA with innumerable demands for roll call votes?
Really?
Seriously?
Ghost
· 7 months ago
=== getting legislators on record - aren’t games, isn’t that just basic good govt ===
SO moron you define good governemn as meaningless actions designed only to create talking points but acheieving no real ends? You also support a procedural process that would allow any minority party to grind governemtn to a halt Mr. Smith fillibuster style by paper storming meaningless bills? That may be moronic governemnt, but there is nothing good about it.
Rich Miller
· 7 months ago
BTW, moron, just so you know, this "paper storming" referenced by Ghost actually did happen here. The year was 1994, and the House GOP filed countless floor amendments designed to gridlock the process. It worked. The next year, the HGOPs changed the rules to prohibit Dems from doing the same thing.
moron
· 7 months ago
All hail efficiency! Silly me, power sharing with minority views would just bog things down. Tyrannical control of the agenda by the majority leadership, how's that working out?
moron
· 7 months ago
you guys would really like the Chicago City Council, it's a model of efficiency
you guys sound like the apologists for Chicago aldermen, the alternative to a rubber stamp Council is chaos
you fear democracy
VanillaMan
· 7 months ago
There is no such thing as meaningless action in the General Assembly if you take into consideration how important it is for the minority party to keep the majority party on it's toes - political opposition is always good, especially when it is unwanted by the majority party.
And it doesn't matter which party is the majority party either.
Rich Miller
· 7 months ago
===you fear democracy ===
You need help. Seriously, seek attention.
moron
· 7 months ago
"You also support a procedural process that would allow ... "
Exactly. I support procedures whereby the lowliest frosh legislator from Buxtahooty can put the wizen old gits from Chicago on the record on a given issue.
moron
· 7 months ago
It's great that the defenders of the status quo have a blog they can call home.
Ghost
· 7 months ago
VM I disagree that there is no such thing as meaningless action, but I do agree that the minority party should be keeping the majority party on its toes. At the same time a party is "keeping the other on its toes" it should also be subject to being called out for meaingless activity if that is what it is doing.
Thompson found many a way to negotiate deals across the aisle instead of just flooding the process with meaningless legislation. Some would argue that a legislator who refuses to discuss real solutions to problems and instead dedicate themselves to frvoulous activity should be kept on their toes by being called out for meaningless action and failure to lead.
anon
· 7 months ago
whatever they're doing - it must be working...
VanillaMan
· 7 months ago
Claiming something is meaningless only shows that you are unable to find meaning. It is a subjective term you have conveniently applied to cover your error. Claiming that since Thompson could negotiate thirty years ago, and that he was a GOP governor, so any GOP leader could do the same today, is obviously illogical on many levels.
Rod Blagojevich took actions that most claimed were meaningless, yet we are discovering that he had reasons for doing so we simply didn't know at the time.
Unless you are some kind of political seer who is empowered to understand everything, you need to come down from your ivory tower on this one.
Ghost
· 7 months ago
But yet you claim that everything is meaningful shows that you have no understanding of meaning. Claiming that all activity must ipso facto be meaningful is by defintion illogical for its underlying assumption. Refering to Thompsons ability to negotiate as being outdated and illogical without actual explanation is just name calling, which by definition means you have no substantive point and are falling back on unsupported derogotory descriptives to subsititue for actual concepts.
As for the ivory tower, argument ad homniem, when you lack credible support for a position attack the commentor directly. Perhaps VM you should come down from your ivory tower that meaninless GOP activity should not be identifed as pointless games in derogation of the needs of the state and face uncomfortable truths.
If you think Thompson style of working across the aisle is outdated, then sums up the whole problem with your position. By defintion you define governemtn as the required refusal to bargain or negotiate regardless of the issue.
Squideshi
· 7 months ago
I fully support Republicans making the proposal and moving to have it discharged from committee. It doesn't matter if they know that the Democrats will block it or not--if the Democrats block it, those Democrats deserve to be listed individually.
Rich Miller
· 7 months ago
Yep. Criticize a reform and you're automatically tagged as defending the status quo. Moron, meet McCarthy.
moron
· 7 months ago
"... a small handful of legislators could ... perpetually tie up the GA ... "
um, isn't that exactly what we have now?
moron
· 7 months ago
Criticize the legislative leadership and you're automatically tagged as dangerous and playing a game.
"...the reformers are trying to hold the budget hostage to their agenda… “For the legislature to turn around and say, ‘We are going to raise your taxes, trust us,’ without doing anything to show they have cleaned up their own house is a very dangerous proposition,†said Cynthia Canary, director of the Illinois Coalition for Political Reform. That’s a very dangerous game she wants to play. Putting the fate of millions of Illinoisans on the line to “win†a debate over something like campaign caps is audacious in the extreme."
"Putting the fate of millions of Illinoisans on the line" - that's not "around the bend"?
Tom Joad
· 7 months ago
I think moron has met McCarthy, Charlie McCarthy
Easy
· 7 months ago
my point on emil is this, although it took a call from the soon-to-be president to get it done, emil called a special session to pass regulations on who can contribute.
Cullerton and Madigan, in a much more reform-oriented environment are stalling.
trust me, this is much less a defense of emil and much more an indictment of the inaction and self-interest of the cullerton and madigan.
moron
· 7 months ago
"...a small handful of legislators could bypass committees..."
ah, the sanctity of the committee process
"Republican lawmakers blasted Democrats' decision to vote on the measure quickly, without any hearing in committee."
Bobs yer
· 7 months ago
Last couple years, I've thought that we should reduce the House to 1 member, since only Madigan has power (Didn't Quinn claim we could do that when he did his 1/3 reduction?). Let him run statewide and see if the voters wants him to control that whole function. Save some money too.
All Comments
Of the 61 legislators listed, I'm betting the old Pharisee Tribune endorsed a majority of them.
LOL.
Excellent point.
What is a "game" to Springfield types is viewed as a legislative process gone wrong in the rest of the state. Love or hate his tactics, Cross has struck a nerve.
That spot light must be pretty uncomfortable right about now for many legislators and elected officials.
Oh wait - The General Assembly already passed that law last year because they found out (thanks to the Tribune in part) what was going on.
Next, the General Assembly should make it illegal for a Governor to use his office to make appointments or his other official powers for personal gain. Oh, wait - that's already illegal.
The Reform Commission, Andy Shaw, and the Chicago Tribune need to get a grip on reality here and stop using Blagojevich as an excuse to harung the legislative leaders, Speaker Madigan in particular.
Speaker Madigan was the only legislative leader who stood up to Rod Blagojevich and he was the only one who stopped him from getting his hands in the capital plan cookie jar. The Tribune and the Daily Herald bashed Madigan for his part in the in-fighting, they haven't ever yet conceded that Madigan was right all along.
Perhaps if they start with that acknowledgement, they might see light of day for some of their other "reforms." But bashing the one who needs to pass the bills and blaming him for problems that were really created by Blago - ain't gonna cut it.
One man's little media show is another's doing the people's work. Trying to get legislators on the record on issues is important. Should a minority just sit there and shut up?
Certainly not. But one should also recognize this for what it is.
That hardly means it's a wast of time.
" ... the House GOP has been doing this stuff all session. They’ll get behind some hot-button issue, make a motion to discharge it from committee, the Democrats will block it, the Republicans will force a floor vote on whether to sustain or override the chair, the Democrats win the partisan vote and then the Republicans’ campaign operation will blast thousands of negative robocalls into targeted Democratic districts."
Um, isn't that sorta how one hopes a minority in a legislature will act, on a good day?
What's the appropriate tone for editorializing on IL state gov?
Urging readers to contact their legislators is around the bend?
Why can't the editors just chill & let the pros in Springfield do their jobs?
===
You didn't read the rest of that excerpt?
You're too funny, moron. Nitpick away and take all out of context even though we can all see the context. What a funny moron.
Could you explain that one?
If you define "reformer" as someone who passes a bill, that might be the case, but I'm not sure how. If you define reformer as someone who tries to avoid, um, shall we say, unsavory arrangements, then you can't possibly say that.
Is there another Emil I don't know about?
But honestly, one cannot legitimately suggest and defend reform credentials for Emil given his relationship with Blago during their concurring tenures.
Just imagine the kind of games such a "reform" would create.
Again I say, are we really making the system better with many of the proposed reforms, or are we really just puting in more hurdles and technicalities to naviagte just for the sake of taking what we have and making it different.
Is there a generational split in reform efforts within the IL Senate? Or is it that these youngsters haven't been there long enough to love the system that has perpetuated the graft? I couldn't help crediting Cullerton for his deft usage of his younger members for political cover...
1. how easily they can be duped
2.how quickly all their rants can be ignored
3. how easy it is to them to ignore their own Wrigley and ESOP scandals
Shades of their Wrigley Field lights scandal
BTW lets remember they Circular Firing Squad is the snrinking minority becuase of their attempts to make hay with procedural roll calls
Respecting the rights of the minority, respecting the rights of individual legislators even, fighting for up-or-down votes, getting legislators on record - aren't games, isn't that just basic good govt, what we fought for on the beaches? What am I missing here?
Really?
Seriously?
SO moron you define good governemn as meaningless actions designed only to create talking points but acheieving no real ends? You also support a procedural process that would allow any minority party to grind governemtn to a halt Mr. Smith fillibuster style by paper storming meaningless bills? That may be moronic governemnt, but there is nothing good about it.
you guys sound like the apologists for Chicago aldermen, the alternative to a rubber stamp Council is chaos
you fear democracy
And it doesn't matter which party is the majority party either.
You need help. Seriously, seek attention.
Exactly. I support procedures whereby the lowliest frosh legislator from Buxtahooty can put the wizen old gits from Chicago on the record on a given issue.
Thompson found many a way to negotiate deals across the aisle instead of just flooding the process with meaningless legislation. Some would argue that a legislator who refuses to discuss real solutions to problems and instead dedicate themselves to frvoulous activity should be kept on their toes by being called out for meaningless action and failure to lead.
Rod Blagojevich took actions that most claimed were meaningless, yet we are discovering that he had reasons for doing so we simply didn't know at the time.
Unless you are some kind of political seer who is empowered to understand everything, you need to come down from your ivory tower on this one.
As for the ivory tower, argument ad homniem, when you lack credible support for a position attack the commentor directly. Perhaps VM you should come down from your ivory tower that meaninless GOP activity should not be identifed as pointless games in derogation of the needs of the state and face uncomfortable truths.
If you think Thompson style of working across the aisle is outdated, then sums up the whole problem with your position. By defintion you define governemtn as the required refusal to bargain or negotiate regardless of the issue.
um, isn't that exactly what we have now?
"...the reformers are trying to hold the budget hostage to their agenda… “For the legislature to turn around and say, ‘We are going to raise your taxes, trust us,’ without doing anything to show they have cleaned up their own house is a very dangerous proposition,†said Cynthia Canary, director of the Illinois Coalition for Political Reform. That’s a very dangerous game she wants to play. Putting the fate of millions of Illinoisans on the line to “win†a debate over something like campaign caps is audacious in the extreme."
"Putting the fate of millions of Illinoisans on the line" - that's not "around the bend"?
Cullerton and Madigan, in a much more reform-oriented environment are stalling.
trust me, this is much less a defense of emil and much more an indictment of the inaction and self-interest of the cullerton and madigan.
ah, the sanctity of the committee process
"Republican lawmakers blasted Democrats' decision to vote on the measure quickly, without any hearing in committee."