It is using the most vulnerable amongst us (the people who rely on state services) as human shields.
Conservative Veteran
· 6 months ago
Yes, it's a legitimate demand. No, the democratic majority shouldn't agree to the redistricting reform as part of the budget negotiations. I agree that the redistricting should be reformed. It should be done using the Iowa method, allowing a computer to draw the lines, without considering the incumbents or race. However, this subject is not related to the budget, and the topics should be negotiated separately.
Anonymous45
· 6 months ago
It will never happen...it should happen, but it never will...the Repubs didn't mind gerrymandering when they were the majority party...now that they're in the minority they want to change it? Besides, how will this really help them now that the collar counties are trending more Democratic? Just pony up and pass the tax increase before your constituency votes you out of office, whether you are a Dem/Rep legislator...this endless posturing is SO tedious
Greg B.
· 6 months ago
Yes, an unresponsive legislature is part of the problem because currently legislators pick their constituents, not the other way around.
Secondly, given the poor and justifiable level of trust, "by me a hamburger now and I'll pay you Tuesday," isn't going to fly. In my humble opinion, the answer should be a defiant no on taxes. Once that no is heard, maybe then that will force the party in power to look at reforms that deliver better services in a more cost effective manner.
I'm Just Saying
· 6 months ago
This is all part of a National Strategy to do this.... The maps will be drawn again in three years for congress too and the GOP knows they have little chance of picking up the mansion, no matter who runs so hey, let's just change the rules so we can pick up more seats in congress.....
It's BS, and it's BS that the GOP is holding the state hostage to do it...
wordslinger
· 6 months ago
I think it's legitimate. If you're taking the position that some further reforms need to take place before you increase taxes, I'm cool with that.
If the GOP Tops think that's the cover they need to make a deal, I think the Dems should take it.
Even if such a referendum is passed, I'm not convinced a new redistricting method means an end to Dem control. The state seems to be drifting that way on its own.
Heartless Libertarian
· 6 months ago
I don't know if redistricting reform is a legitimate demand... and I really don't care. Government action angers me more than government inaction. Quinn had a budget that passed both house and senate. He didn't like it... so let's shut the gov't down and see what happens....
erstwhilesteve
· 6 months ago
This is another attempt to hold human services hostage for different pet issues. This one is somewhat worse than others because there is a specific political knife being twisted here - aimed at Speaker Madigan.I happen to think that the Speaker is wrong on this issue, but this demand just adds another layer to the current impasse.
47th Ward
· 6 months ago
Sure, it's legitimate. It's also a huge strategic error on the part of the GOP.
I am a big supporter of this proposal and as partisan a Democrat as you will find. Drawing legislative districts that are compact, contiguous and keep communities intact will ensure a Democratic majority for decades.
While that's obviously just my opinion, all of the demographic trends in Illinois are favoring my party and the current GOP civil war is not likely to end any time soon.
Bring it on. Madigan and Cullerton should agree to this in a heartbeat. Note to Cross and Radogno: be careful of what you wish for, you just might get it.
Rich Miller
· 6 months ago
I've deleted a couple of comments already, so please stick to the question people. If you respond to someone else's comment, make sure you also include your answer to today's QOTD. Thanks.
Easy
· 6 months ago
I totally believe it is legitimate. Now is the time to reform Illinois from top to bottom. and the redistricting process is the most abused political power play that exists in Illinois.
shore
· 6 months ago
No. The Republican Party should have to earn our majority back. These leaders to me are as impressive as the French infantry was in the 1930's on its eastern front. It's a cheap way to get power they haven't earned yet, and again, I'm a nakedly partisan republican who posts on this site.
Skeeter
· 6 months ago
'We will go along with you on this bad legislation that we believe is bad, if you give us some good legislation."
That seems to be the argument that the GOP is making.
No, that is not legitimate. It is horse-trading at its worst.
That being said, I do agree that we need a new system to re-district.
Anon
· 6 months ago
Yes, it's legitimate for the Republicans to demand something they think is important in exchange for any cooperation. Rahm Emanuel:
“Rule one: Never allow a crisis to go to waste. They are opportunities to do big things.â€
I don't think putting the question on the ballot would be that risky - is the public really going to get excited about it? So I would take the deal, even if I hated the idea of impartial redistricting.
Greg B.
· 6 months ago
Picking up on 47th ward's comment... Even if it is the case that one party or another has an advantage, continuous, compact districts that keep communities together will make for more diverse districts both internal and external to them. Reform would be taken more seriously, as would many issues.
Again, standing against tax increases forces reform.
For those accusing the GOP holding human services hostage. GOPer's who know budgeting have told me these are a bargain for taxpayers and that it the Blagojevich Admin. that threw many of them to the curb to pay for Medicaid expansions (if I'm wrong here please correct me, but that's how I understood it).
It costs $75K to house someone in a mental institution. A home environment is both less expensive and an improvement in the quality of life. And it's the Gov's decision on what gets cut because the GA left it up to him. He's holding the hostages.
The Doc
· 6 months ago
===Even if such a referendum is passed, I’m not convinced a new redistricting method means an end to Dem control. The state seems to be drifting that way on its own.===
Agreed, wordslinger. One need only look at the 2008 national elections to realize that it's not in the immediate best interests of the GOP, from a purely numeric standpoint, to embrace nonpartisan redistricting methods.
More to Rich's question, it's a legitimate request. MJM's defense of the current methodology has been laughable, and it's perhaps the single most effective means of holding lawmakers more accountable and representative of their constituencies.
We all see it for what it is - the usual horse trading, which is an often odious but necessary component of politics. But, in this particular instance, I think the ends could justify the means.
bored now
· 6 months ago
personally, i like the idea of an independent commission performing the remap. but i sure the hell can't support the ilga republicans holding the budget hostage to this demand. i seriously doubt, in the unlikely event they were to get this, that they would participate anyway. they would make some other demand -- anything -- to keep from taking responsibility for the sorry state that illinois is in. this is the number one reason why republicans offer no real alternative to the status quo...
Louis G. Atsaves
· 6 months ago
Yes it is legitimate. The Democrats deliberately let the GOP sit at the table now by running out the clock. This after basically ignoring the GOP all session.
I know there are Democrats out there that are saying "merciful heavens, this isn't related, how dare they behave this way" but need I remind everyone that legislators link up votes like this quite often. The "shock" factor just isn't there so the drama queens need to get over it and get to work.
The Democrats knew they would have to deal with various demands of the GOP that they previously tanked during the session in order to finish their business. They allowed the clock to run out anyway.
Now it is time for the Democrats to sit down with the GOP and reach an agreement.
State Rep Mike Fortner
· 6 months ago
There are a number of reforms that will help the state with future budget debates. Redistricting reform can help create a more responsive legislature so it is appropriate.
I've spent some time studying the issue of redistricting reform. This spring I participated in a redistricting contest that Ohio held to develop reforms to their system. Today Ohio announced the winners, and was one of their three winners.
Based on my study and that experience, I filed a constitutional amendment (HJRCA 32). Under my proposal we would use an open source approach to redistricting. All interested parties would have access to the same data and tools to produce a map. The best plans would then go to the legislature for their selection. This gives the public the greatest opportunity to influence districts for the next decade.
The Curmudgeon
· 6 months ago
Yes, I think it is a legitimate demand and, yes, the Democrats should agree... but I don't think they will.
But the Republicans are merely borrowing a page from the Book of Rahm Emmanuel: Every crisis presents an opportunity. In this case it is an opportunity for an important reform. I can't promise that compact, contiguous legislative districts alone would keep us from having budget messes in the future -- but I believe it's a good thing that may not be attainable any other way.
The Democrats had their chance to pass their budget their way. They didn't. Now they must pay the price.
Plutocrat03
· 6 months ago
The truth is that it is the Democrats who are holding the poor and indigent as hostages in order to preserve their corrupt status quo.
They had the ability to pass whatever budget they wanted but did not have the courage to do what they now argue is the right thing.
The Republicans are justified to use all means necessary to try and bring sanity to our states budget.
just sayin
· 6 months ago
Redistricting reform is desperately needed. No question. But it should stand on its own.
But the sad truth is the IL GOP will screw things up no matter what map they get. The IL GOP will lose seats no matter how you draw the lines. Tom Cross especially is the kiss of death.
Remember this has happened before. The map drawn after the 1990 census was supposedly big time pro-Republican. That lasted about 4 years for the House. Granted that was under Lee Daniels but Cross seems no better.
Bubs
· 6 months ago
Hold on here, WHO is holding the service uses hostage? The Democratic leadership, by transferring all the pain to the service vendors, is like that old National Lampoon cover of a man holding a gun to a dog's temple with the headline, "Buy this Magazine or We'll Shoot this Dog!"
The Demcrats have increased spending hugely in recent years, creating a hole, and now the economy has tanked (under Democratic rule in Illinois, no less) so now they are in a gigantic hole. But rather than cut anything, the Democrats want to raise taxes in a recession. If it does not pass, despite huge Democratic majorities, and lousy Democratic political leadership in letting things reach this point at all, it is now "ALL THE REPUBLICANS' FAULT"!
Ridiculous.
I beleive that the position is a legitimate response to Democratic intransigence and refusal to face economic reality. The Democrats, for all of their talk of bipartisanship now, have utterly ignored the Republicans for years, outside of overtime sessions.
If they want any tax increase at all, they now have to meet the GOP halfway by adopting reform measuers on spending, redistricting, and ethics as well. That is it.
Skirmisher
· 6 months ago
Yes, it is legitimate. The Dems could have resolved the budget dilema on their own terms and left the Republicans in the cold. They chose instead to empower the GOP under the presumption that the political gains would outweigh the negatives. This is one of the "negatives". The GOP can now demand redistricting reform as a condition of support for a budget resolution. Seems to me that Madigan and Company must have taken further demands for reform into account when the decision was made to bring the Repubs into the budget process. Of-course, I realy think this is just more Cross posturing, but if he means it, then it is certainly a bargaining chip.
From the Trenchs
· 6 months ago
I am shocked at the number of people that appose a tax increase. I can’t help but wonder if they recognize the human suffering the proposed cuts will cause. Like other taxpayers, I don't relish paying more taxes. But as a mental health services provider, I question the wisdom of cutting funding for treatment for the working poor or eliminating inpatient and outpatient mental health services when there already isn’t enough of either. Our emergency rooms, jails, and streets are already serving the overflow. Do we really want to make these our de-facto mental health system?
I understand there are political interests that scream to be attended to, but don't use children, elderly and disabled persons as the pawns in these negotiations. Redistricting, pensions, and political ambitions of powerful offspring - none of these concerns can justify holding critical human services as hostage. If I may co-opt a favorite statement of the union leadership, "don't balance the budget on the backs of the needy."
Gregor
· 6 months ago
It's a republican smoke screen to divert attention from them having to sign on to the tax increase, in my opinion. They need a fig leaf to stand behind after all that bleating about holding the line on taxes. If they sign on to a tax hike, even a reasonable, needed, logical one, they've thrown away their one distinctive issue.
Redistricting is needed, reform is needed, but trying to create linkage to the budget is like me telling the wife I *would* clean out the garage, but only after I get my work pants back from the cleaners.
Which I have not gone to with the pants yet.
I really don't want to believe the dems deliberately threw away writing their own budget before overtime, just to drag some repubs into the fray with them. They had the numbers to shove anything thru in June. The skeptic in me suggests though that this was the default plan, to deliberately loosen the lug nuts on all four wheels of the state government and go for a mountainside scenic drive on that 50-% budget, because the whole lot of them down there are chicken-hearted cowards about both program cuts AND raising taxes. When the strategy gets this granular, when it gets this zero-sum, this Machiavellian, we citizens have been abandoned by the people we hired. We have to give up because the system has failed and there is nobody willing to actually lead.
I may have to go to the Goodwill, find some tie-dye and hemp clothing, and then find Squideshi. I am beyond my limit of patience with both major parties here, and I'm in the mood to vote every one of them out over this ridiculous situation. Every. One.
LisleMike
· 6 months ago
When either party is or has been in the minority they must utilize whatever vehicle is available to advance their adjenda. Nothing at all wrong with pursuing this avenue. To those who feel the "vulnerable" are human sheilds, wake up: Everyone will use your position to further their own needs. Wrong, but it is politics. I say "Go for it!" You've got nothing to lose.
Rob_N
· 6 months ago
The "ends" is legitimate, but the "means" with which the GOP is doing it (ie, whining and holding the state hostage to their minority-party demands) is baloney.
If they really wanted to get this done why didn't they make just as big a push for ConCon? That'd be the more transparent route to take -- rewrite the whole kit n kaboodle.
Greg B.
· 6 months ago
From the Trenches,
With unemployment topping 10% in Illinois, income tax revenues plummeting how can you justify causing the pain and suffering to Illinois taxpayers? No one has the money. It's not there. We're caput. We're broke. Taking more of what people don't have isn't going to help and it will pro-long the suffering over the long-term.
There are other programs fully funded in the budget. Medicaid screams for reform. It's the Democrats throwing you overboard, not those of us who recognize that tax increases are not and have not been the answer. The D's cut human services to pay for their Medicaid expansion so families earning $60K per year could be dependent Democrat voters. Why don't you go get that money back?
You guys are local heros, I get that. You perform a function very well that used to be much more expensive and done much more poorly.
When Pat Quinn released his first doomsday budget he said cops would be fired, and the fire department would be cut, prisoners would be released. No one bought it. Now, you guys are on the chopping block. No one is buying it. Your fight is with him, not the taxpayer.
L.S.
· 6 months ago
As a policy measure, it's all fine and good to debate a computer generated map.
For Cross and Co. to use it as a negoiation point this late in the game is at best disingenious, at worst shameful.
But then again,I'm sure they don't see it that way since the budget deficit is totally made up and the impending crisis is all manufactured. And the deficit is all the Democrats fault...if there was one...which there isn't...cause the Dems are making it all up.
Bubs
· 6 months ago
Gregor,
Rodogno is right - if the GOP gives in and allows a tax increase to get the Democratic leadership out of this jam without reforms, they are fools, for the reform proposals will instantly turn "DOA" the moment the tax increase is passed.
From the Trenchs-
Don't you see that things that should be the last cut, like mental health services, are the FIRST being cut under this Democratic Pressure Tactic? And they are forcing it at a time when there is money to keep your program going. They are just trying to force the GOP by triggering appeals just like yours. Your program will stop due to Democratic maneuvering, not the GOP.
The Democrats have enough Democratic votes to pass their tax increase in the Senate, and are but one vote short in the House. So why don't they have it done? Because Democratic legislators are scared to vote for the increase unless Republicans give them political cover by going along, to give the excuse that it was "bipartisan."
Wait, wait, don't tell me, so you mean their might be POLITICS going on the Democratic side of this? My goodness, I thought they were just out to serve the people, and it was those evil Republicans playing politics!
Bubs
· 6 months ago
L.S.
Th budget deficit, unfortunately, is not made up. The Legistature spent us into this corner. The GOP wants permanent spending cuts across the board as part of the solution.
This present "crisis" and the shutting down of vendor programs on July 1, however, is very contrived. 90% of budget money is already there, but the Dems are shifting the pain of the last 10% on the vendors to create a "crisis" so they can get their tax increase.
Stop being a sucker.
Ghost
· 6 months ago
=== I think it’s legitimate. If you’re taking the position that some further reforms need to take place before you increase taxes, I’m cool with that.
If the GOP Tops think that’s the cover they need to make a deal, I think the Dems should take it.
Even if such a referendum is passed, I’m not convinced a new redistricting method means an end to Dem control. The state seems to be drifting that way on its own. ===
My thoughts exactly. Its time to talk bipartisan support for new taxes. The reasonable way to negotiate for GOP support is to give something in exchange. This give up overall I think is reasonable. Nothing wrong with allowing the GOP a gratious way to support the increase by identifying a substantive reform in exchange for their support.
This is the light at the end of the tunnel and the Dems better leap at it or be burned at the stake.
ProgressinIllinois
· 6 months ago
Do we need redistricting reform? YES. Should it be included in budget negotiations? NO. We need to focus on the thousands of jobs that will be lost, the billions we will forfeit in federal funds, and the people that will lose necessary services if the General Assembly does not get its act together. Now as a progressive democrat, of course I agree with finding a better way to redistrict our legislature and better serve the constituents. Democrats in both houses should jump with joy at this proposal. But we need to FOCUS. Stop the politicking and get down to business.
discgolfer
· 6 months ago
Reform of the current legislative redistricting is a must. It is one of the key recommendations of Quinn's reform commission. The Iowa model has been cited numberous times by reformers as a fair and effective method of legislative redistricting. The Democrats should agree to it as part of budget bargaining, but obviously won't because it risks ruining a favored incumbent practice: "I pick my voters". Reform is what is sorely needed in this state, and any means used to get it is legitimate.
Rich Miller
· 6 months ago
===This present “crisis†and the shutting down of vendor programs on July 1, however, is very contrived. 90% of budget money is already there, but the Dems are shifting the pain of the last 10% on the vendors to create a “crisis†so they can get their tax increase.===
Mainly because that's where almost all of the last 10 percent is.
Try a little research.
VanillaMan
· 6 months ago
A one-party state, which Illinois has been for the past decade, is a loser. Without a vibrant opposition party, the Party in Power has become paralyzed over it's own policies. There has been few bipartisan solutions needed to keep this state from hitting the rocks.
We've been in this rut years before this recession started! Blaming Blagojevich and the economy for our state government's stupidity and refusal to reform should not be accepted. The crisis we face is the result of bad government administration and policies smashing into an economic recession.
The Democrats are offering a Band-Aid "tax me more" solution that a majority of Illinoisans recognize as short-term. They are parading their human shields before us and threaten to hurt their own voter base if the rest of us don't cough up more of our money. It is utter nonsense.
Quinn and the Democrats will not cut the budget. They will not slash jobs. They will not reform the government they have wrecked. They will not do these things because they will be committing political suicide. They have painted all of us into a corner and expect a toothless GOP to shoulder the blame.
If the Democrats want to do something, they can the political power to do it. They can find GOP votes to wear as a fig leaf for their electoral games next year if they compromise with the GOP on issues a majority of Illinoisans want - governmental, budgetary and ethical reforms. The Illinois Democrats can do whatever they want.
The stalemate we are witnessing is their doing.
reformer
· 6 months ago
MMadigan won't give away his map-drawing prerogative. Republicans know that, which is why they've made a deal-killer one of their non-negotiable demands. Then they can blame the Dems for the consequences.
It's a truism that both parties engage in political calculations. The fact is that Quinn can't cut most of the budget due to federal regs and various exigencies, such as paying off bonds. I expect we'll see both huge reductions in the state burocracy and in grant funding.
Rod
· 6 months ago
I am generally in favor of redistricting.
Ghost
· 6 months ago
=== The stalemate we are witnessing is their doing. ====
False, unless every GOP members votes to support a bill and it still doesnt pass, then the failure of legislation to pass falls on ever person who votes no. We organize around political parties, but each [party is made up of individuals who have authority to cast votes. Every individual is repsonsible for their vote.
Captain America
· 6 months ago
I am absolutely in favor of compact and contiguous districts, subject to some protections for minority represntation. In fact I like the Iowa system. Drawing districts favorable to either party based upon the winner of a coin flip. seems absurd to me, regardless of which party wins the toss.
The Republican leadership position that the human services budget crisis is "manufactured" is equally absurd.
I question the linkage of the two issues the human services budget crisis/income tax increase. It may be as someone else suggested a smokescreen to try to escape culpability for not doing what everyone knows needs to be done - increase income taxes - temporary or otherwise.
But a ballot 2010 ballot referendum proposing the end of gerrymanding seems like a small price to pay for an inocme tax increase to forestall the inhuman reductions in human services funding. A ballot referndum on the issue seems like a small price to pay.
If I were Madigan, I would consider Republican votes for the "anti gerrymandering" referendum would be good trade. After all Democrats might lose the coin flip.
Therefore, I think they should talk "Turkey" - pun intended -nd get something constructive done to resolve the human services defunding crisis next week.
dupage dan
· 6 months ago
I am sure there is a fair and equitable way to properly redistrict the state. I have heard the Iowa way involves a process that appears to be free of partisan meddling. If true, we should adopt that - better than what we have now.
I doubt very much that MJM will allow that to happen. He is fixated on forcing the GOP to vote for the budget/tax increase in sufficient numbers so that he can shield his majority. We are all vicitms of his gamesmanship, taxpayers, recipients, vendors and state employees.
I am not convinced the GOP has learned its' lesson re past messes. However, they are using the page out of Emmanuels playbook and to some good effect. Stick to your guns!
Will County Woman
· 6 months ago
yes, the republicans are right to stand firm and demand significant reforms; redistricting reform is of crucial importance. if no significant reforms now on the heels of govs blago and ryan, when? Six years of gross overspending has made the republican party, which objected to the gross overspending, understandably angry and on guard. the tribune editorial praising the republican leaders for standing firm was/is 100% correct.
a tax increase during a recession is just not good public policy. but, good public policy notwithstanding this is illinois so...whatever.
if the gov. is so concerned about cutting services to the poor, why didn't he play hardball with AFSCME more? what happened to his talk of "shared sacrifice" when he made his budget proposal? beyond that, with 30 years + in state government whether as a reform advocate or elected official, the gov. had to have known that a tax increase was a non-starter and likely d.o.a when he proposed it, so why didn't he go about it a more strategic way? sure a tax increase of some kind was likely inevitable, but why didn't he hold it as a last resort, though? why didn't he steal thunder by making painful and necessary cuts first, and then finalize with a tax increase (preferably a temporary one) to make his budget more palatable? why didn't the democrat controlled gen. assembly carpe diem on may 31st and work together (house and senate) to pass a budget? everyone knew that if the republicans had a say, they'd have a lot to say and would have some demands. when quinn became gov., it was predicted how this would all play out, so he could have and should have done more to avert the present situation. is anyone advising him???????????
at this point, and in fact all along, it is in the taxpayer's interest for the budget to be cut and social services gutted. social services need to be re-done/re-worked so that funding is allocated in a leaner, meaner and more sustainable way. I am sick and tired of seeing the poor and vulnerable exploited every year by politicians during budget time, and then largely ignored the rest of the year. it's unfortunate when politicians make the decision as to who will suffer first and perhaps most, and it's interesting how politicians always opt to go the social services route first and most. it's such a terrible political tactic and a gross display of hypocrisy, abuse and exploitation.
bored now
· 6 months ago
vanman, do you have evidence of the existence of a viable second party in the state? could you tell me what party that might be?
just askin. i don't get the impression that illinois republicans have any interest in being a viable political party here...
VanillaMan
· 6 months ago
That will depend on how you define "viable". You are not the only one wondering about the GOP.
As to evidence, it appears that there are some names listed as GOP in the General Assembly.
State Rep Mike Fortner
· 6 months ago
A number of posters, and the Collins report, have cited Iowa as a model for redistricting. Though there are many commendable features to the Iowa system, most experts I've spoken to think it would fall short in Illinois. The main problem is that Iowa is a very homogeneous state without the concentrations of large minority populations. The requirements of the federal Voting Rights Act complicates redistricting in Illinois. My proposal mentioned earlier in the thread borrows some from Iowa, but uses public input to better balance the needs of the state.
VanillaMan
· 6 months ago
...the failure of legislation to pass falls on ever person who votes no
How utterly ridiculous. When a quarterback throws a wild pass, it isn't the fault of the forwards when the other team intercepts.
What is the point of being in the majority party if you take no responsibilities and expect total loyalty behind each bill presented? Besides self interest, that is.
Your statement is not very bipartisan - or correct.
47th Ward
· 6 months ago
===How utterly ridiculous. When a quarterback throws a wild pass, it isn’t the fault of the forwards when the other team intercepts.===
Mixed metaphor? Where do the "forwards" line up on the grid iron?
Six Degrees of Separation
· 6 months ago
47th-
I think offensive ends were called "forwards" back in the leather helmet days. Maybe VanMan is older than he lets on.
I am shocked at the number of people that (oppose) a tax increase.
One governor in jail, another on the way, a gridlocked, bickering legislature, and an economy in the tank will tend to do that, right or wrong.
Boxing Cross
· 6 months ago
Wow BoxedTom sits there and talks about the 2012 election while seniors suffer Another coup for the circular firing squad Fire, Aim Ready!
The Court Jester
· 6 months ago
This dem spin is laughable... Of course it's a legit request. It forwards a political ethics issue that right now the Dems are losing...bad.. Aren't Republican for lower taxes and less government?
steve schnorf
· 6 months ago
I've been saying for 3 months that this budget created an opportunity for us Rs to demand reforms in return for our support on passing and funding an adequate budget.
The first two demands were Medicaid reform and pension reform. Now redistricting reform has been added to the list. The Ds should have taken the first offer, because redistricting changes are harder for them to swallow than the other two.
On the other hand, for any of the elected officials or any of us here to try to portray one party or the other as the ones at fault is specious. As an earlier poster said, the people about to get screwed don't care about partisan politics, they just want their government to stop behaving like a dysfunctional family at Thanksgiving dinner. I don't think that's too much to expect.
The Rs should keep the high ground, insisting on long term reforms, and straightforwardly state that they will support necessary budget cuts and revenue enhancements in return for those reforms.
Rich Miller
· 6 months ago
===It forwards a political ethics issue that right now the Dems are losing…bad===
Yeah, but is it one that anyone outside this blog really understands or cares about? So, even if the GOPs "win," do they really win? They vote for a tax hike for this?
All Comments
It is using the most vulnerable amongst us (the people who rely on state services) as human shields.
Secondly, given the poor and justifiable level of trust, "by me a hamburger now and I'll pay you Tuesday," isn't going to fly. In my humble opinion, the answer should be a defiant no on taxes. Once that no is heard, maybe then that will force the party in power to look at reforms that deliver better services in a more cost effective manner.
It's BS, and it's BS that the GOP is holding the state hostage to do it...
If the GOP Tops think that's the cover they need to make a deal, I think the Dems should take it.
Even if such a referendum is passed, I'm not convinced a new redistricting method means an end to Dem control. The state seems to be drifting that way on its own.
I am a big supporter of this proposal and as partisan a Democrat as you will find. Drawing legislative districts that are compact, contiguous and keep communities intact will ensure a Democratic majority for decades.
While that's obviously just my opinion, all of the demographic trends in Illinois are favoring my party and the current GOP civil war is not likely to end any time soon.
Bring it on. Madigan and Cullerton should agree to this in a heartbeat. Note to Cross and Radogno: be careful of what you wish for, you just might get it.
That seems to be the argument that the GOP is making.
No, that is not legitimate. It is horse-trading at its worst.
That being said, I do agree that we need a new system to re-district.
“Rule one: Never allow a crisis to go to waste. They are opportunities to do big things.â€
I don't think putting the question on the ballot would be that risky - is the public really going to get excited about it? So I would take the deal, even if I hated the idea of impartial redistricting.
Again, standing against tax increases forces reform.
For those accusing the GOP holding human services hostage. GOPer's who know budgeting have told me these are a bargain for taxpayers and that it the Blagojevich Admin. that threw many of them to the curb to pay for Medicaid expansions (if I'm wrong here please correct me, but that's how I understood it).
It costs $75K to house someone in a mental institution. A home environment is both less expensive and an improvement in the quality of life. And it's the Gov's decision on what gets cut because the GA left it up to him. He's holding the hostages.
Agreed, wordslinger. One need only look at the 2008 national elections to realize that it's not in the immediate best interests of the GOP, from a purely numeric standpoint, to embrace nonpartisan redistricting methods.
More to Rich's question, it's a legitimate request. MJM's defense of the current methodology has been laughable, and it's perhaps the single most effective means of holding lawmakers more accountable and representative of their constituencies.
We all see it for what it is - the usual horse trading, which is an often odious but necessary component of politics. But, in this particular instance, I think the ends could justify the means.
I know there are Democrats out there that are saying "merciful heavens, this isn't related, how dare they behave this way" but need I remind everyone that legislators link up votes like this quite often. The "shock" factor just isn't there so the drama queens need to get over it and get to work.
The Democrats knew they would have to deal with various demands of the GOP that they previously tanked during the session in order to finish their business. They allowed the clock to run out anyway.
Now it is time for the Democrats to sit down with the GOP and reach an agreement.
I've spent some time studying the issue of redistricting reform. This spring I participated in a redistricting contest that Ohio held to develop reforms to their system. Today Ohio announced the winners, and was one of their three winners.
Based on my study and that experience, I filed a constitutional amendment (HJRCA 32). Under my proposal we would use an open source approach to redistricting. All interested parties would have access to the same data and tools to produce a map. The best plans would then go to the legislature for their selection. This gives the public the greatest opportunity to influence districts for the next decade.
But the Republicans are merely borrowing a page from the Book of Rahm Emmanuel: Every crisis presents an opportunity. In this case it is an opportunity for an important reform. I can't promise that compact, contiguous legislative districts alone would keep us from having budget messes in the future -- but I believe it's a good thing that may not be attainable any other way.
The Democrats had their chance to pass their budget their way. They didn't. Now they must pay the price.
They had the ability to pass whatever budget they wanted but did not have the courage to do what they now argue is the right thing.
The Republicans are justified to use all means necessary to try and bring sanity to our states budget.
But the sad truth is the IL GOP will screw things up no matter what map they get. The IL GOP will lose seats no matter how you draw the lines. Tom Cross especially is the kiss of death.
Remember this has happened before. The map drawn after the 1990 census was supposedly big time pro-Republican. That lasted about 4 years for the House. Granted that was under Lee Daniels but Cross seems no better.
The Demcrats have increased spending hugely in recent years, creating a hole, and now the economy has tanked (under Democratic rule in Illinois, no less) so now they are in a gigantic hole. But rather than cut anything, the Democrats want to raise taxes in a recession. If it does not pass, despite huge Democratic majorities, and lousy Democratic political leadership in letting things reach this point at all, it is now "ALL THE REPUBLICANS' FAULT"!
Ridiculous.
I beleive that the position is a legitimate response to Democratic intransigence and refusal to face economic reality. The Democrats, for all of their talk of bipartisanship now, have utterly ignored the Republicans for years, outside of overtime sessions.
If they want any tax increase at all, they now have to meet the GOP halfway by adopting reform measuers on spending, redistricting, and ethics as well. That is it.
I understand there are political interests that scream to be attended to, but don't use children, elderly and disabled persons as the pawns in these negotiations. Redistricting, pensions, and political ambitions of powerful offspring - none of these concerns can justify holding critical human services as hostage. If I may co-opt a favorite statement of the union leadership, "don't balance the budget on the backs of the needy."
Redistricting is needed, reform is needed, but trying to create linkage to the budget is like me telling the wife I *would* clean out the garage, but only after I get my work pants back from the cleaners.
Which I have not gone to with the pants yet.
I really don't want to believe the dems deliberately threw away writing their own budget before overtime, just to drag some repubs into the fray with them. They had the numbers to shove anything thru in June. The skeptic in me suggests though that this was the default plan, to deliberately loosen the lug nuts on all four wheels of the state government and go for a mountainside scenic drive on that 50-% budget, because the whole lot of them down there are chicken-hearted cowards about both program cuts AND raising taxes. When the strategy gets this granular, when it gets this zero-sum, this Machiavellian, we citizens have been abandoned by the people we hired. We have to give up because the system has failed and there is nobody willing to actually lead.
I may have to go to the Goodwill, find some tie-dye and hemp clothing, and then find Squideshi. I am beyond my limit of patience with both major parties here, and I'm in the mood to vote every one of them out over this ridiculous situation. Every. One.
If they really wanted to get this done why didn't they make just as big a push for ConCon? That'd be the more transparent route to take -- rewrite the whole kit n kaboodle.
With unemployment topping 10% in Illinois, income tax revenues plummeting how can you justify causing the pain and suffering to Illinois taxpayers? No one has the money. It's not there. We're caput. We're broke. Taking more of what people don't have isn't going to help and it will pro-long the suffering over the long-term.
There are other programs fully funded in the budget. Medicaid screams for reform. It's the Democrats throwing you overboard, not those of us who recognize that tax increases are not and have not been the answer. The D's cut human services to pay for their Medicaid expansion so families earning $60K per year could be dependent Democrat voters. Why don't you go get that money back?
You guys are local heros, I get that. You perform a function very well that used to be much more expensive and done much more poorly.
When Pat Quinn released his first doomsday budget he said cops would be fired, and the fire department would be cut, prisoners would be released. No one bought it. Now, you guys are on the chopping block. No one is buying it. Your fight is with him, not the taxpayer.
For Cross and Co. to use it as a negoiation point this late in the game is at best disingenious, at worst shameful.
But then again,I'm sure they don't see it that way since the budget deficit is totally made up and the impending crisis is all manufactured. And the deficit is all the Democrats fault...if there was one...which there isn't...cause the Dems are making it all up.
Rodogno is right - if the GOP gives in and allows a tax increase to get the Democratic leadership out of this jam without reforms, they are fools, for the reform proposals will instantly turn "DOA" the moment the tax increase is passed.
From the Trenchs-
Don't you see that things that should be the last cut, like mental health services, are the FIRST being cut under this Democratic Pressure Tactic? And they are forcing it at a time when there is money to keep your program going. They are just trying to force the GOP by triggering appeals just like yours. Your program will stop due to Democratic maneuvering, not the GOP.
The Democrats have enough Democratic votes to pass their tax increase in the Senate, and are but one vote short in the House. So why don't they have it done? Because Democratic legislators are scared to vote for the increase unless Republicans give them political cover by going along, to give the excuse that it was "bipartisan."
Wait, wait, don't tell me, so you mean their might be POLITICS going on the Democratic side of this? My goodness, I thought they were just out to serve the people, and it was those evil Republicans playing politics!
Th budget deficit, unfortunately, is not made up. The Legistature spent us into this corner. The GOP wants permanent spending cuts across the board as part of the solution.
This present "crisis" and the shutting down of vendor programs on July 1, however, is very contrived. 90% of budget money is already there, but the Dems are shifting the pain of the last 10% on the vendors to create a "crisis" so they can get their tax increase.
Stop being a sucker.
If the GOP Tops think that’s the cover they need to make a deal, I think the Dems should take it.
Even if such a referendum is passed, I’m not convinced a new redistricting method means an end to Dem control. The state seems to be drifting that way on its own. ===
My thoughts exactly. Its time to talk bipartisan support for new taxes. The reasonable way to negotiate for GOP support is to give something in exchange. This give up overall I think is reasonable. Nothing wrong with allowing the GOP a gratious way to support the increase by identifying a substantive reform in exchange for their support.
This is the light at the end of the tunnel and the Dems better leap at it or be burned at the stake.
Mainly because that's where almost all of the last 10 percent is.
Try a little research.
We've been in this rut years before this recession started! Blaming Blagojevich and the economy for our state government's stupidity and refusal to reform should not be accepted. The crisis we face is the result of bad government administration and policies smashing into an economic recession.
The Democrats are offering a Band-Aid "tax me more" solution that a majority of Illinoisans recognize as short-term. They are parading their human shields before us and threaten to hurt their own voter base if the rest of us don't cough up more of our money. It is utter nonsense.
Quinn and the Democrats will not cut the budget. They will not slash jobs. They will not reform the government they have wrecked. They will not do these things because they will be committing political suicide. They have painted all of us into a corner and expect a toothless GOP to shoulder the blame.
If the Democrats want to do something, they can the political power to do it. They can find GOP votes to wear as a fig leaf for their electoral games next year if they compromise with the GOP on issues a majority of Illinoisans want - governmental, budgetary and ethical reforms. The Illinois Democrats can do whatever they want.
The stalemate we are witnessing is their doing.
Dems for the consequences.
It's a truism that both parties engage in political calculations. The fact is that Quinn can't cut most of the budget due to federal regs and various exigencies, such as paying off bonds. I expect we'll see both huge reductions in the state burocracy and in grant funding.
False, unless every GOP members votes to support a bill and it still doesnt pass, then the failure of legislation to pass falls on ever person who votes no. We organize around political parties, but each [party is made up of individuals who have authority to cast votes. Every individual is repsonsible for their vote.
The Republican leadership position that the human services budget crisis is "manufactured" is equally absurd.
I question the linkage of the two issues the human services budget crisis/income tax increase. It may be as someone else suggested a smokescreen to try to escape culpability for not doing what everyone knows needs to be done - increase income taxes - temporary or otherwise.
But a ballot 2010 ballot referendum proposing the end of gerrymanding seems like a small price to pay for an inocme tax increase to forestall the inhuman reductions in human services funding. A ballot referndum on the issue seems like a small price to pay.
If I were Madigan, I would consider Republican votes for the "anti gerrymandering" referendum would be good trade. After all Democrats might lose the coin flip.
Therefore, I think they should talk "Turkey" - pun intended -nd get something constructive done to resolve the human services defunding crisis next week.
I doubt very much that MJM will allow that to happen. He is fixated on forcing the GOP to vote for the budget/tax increase in sufficient numbers so that he can shield his majority. We are all vicitms of his gamesmanship, taxpayers, recipients, vendors and state employees.
I am not convinced the GOP has learned its' lesson re past messes. However, they are using the page out of Emmanuels playbook and to some good effect. Stick to your guns!
a tax increase during a recession is just not good public policy. but, good public policy notwithstanding this is illinois so...whatever.
if the gov. is so concerned about cutting services to the poor, why didn't he play hardball with AFSCME more? what happened to his talk of "shared sacrifice" when he made his budget proposal? beyond that, with 30 years + in state government whether as a reform advocate or elected official, the gov. had to have known that a tax increase was a non-starter and likely d.o.a when he proposed it, so why didn't he go about it a more strategic way? sure a tax increase of some kind was likely inevitable, but why didn't he hold it as a last resort, though? why didn't he steal thunder by making painful and necessary cuts first, and then finalize with a tax increase (preferably a temporary one) to make his budget more palatable? why didn't the democrat controlled gen. assembly carpe diem on may 31st and work together (house and senate) to pass a budget? everyone knew that if the republicans had a say, they'd have a lot to say and would have some demands. when quinn became gov., it was predicted how this would all play out, so he could have and should have done more to avert the present situation. is anyone advising him???????????
at this point, and in fact all along, it is in the taxpayer's interest for the budget to be cut and social services gutted. social services need to be re-done/re-worked so that funding is allocated in a leaner, meaner and more sustainable way. I am sick and tired of seeing the poor and vulnerable exploited every year by politicians during budget time, and then largely ignored the rest of the year. it's unfortunate when politicians make the decision as to who will suffer first and perhaps most, and it's interesting how politicians always opt to go the social services route first and most. it's such a terrible political tactic and a gross display of hypocrisy, abuse and exploitation.
just askin. i don't get the impression that illinois republicans have any interest in being a viable political party here...
As to evidence, it appears that there are some names listed as GOP in the General Assembly.
How utterly ridiculous. When a quarterback throws a wild pass, it isn't the fault of the forwards when the other team intercepts.
What is the point of being in the majority party if you take no responsibilities and expect total loyalty behind each bill presented? Besides self interest, that is.
Your statement is not very bipartisan - or correct.
Mixed metaphor? Where do the "forwards" line up on the grid iron?
I think offensive ends were called "forwards" back in the leather helmet days. Maybe VanMan is older than he lets on.
I am shocked at the number of people that (oppose) a tax increase.
One governor in jail, another on the way, a gridlocked, bickering legislature, and an economy in the tank will tend to do that, right or wrong.
BoxedTom sits there and talks about the 2012 election while seniors suffer
Another coup for the circular firing squad
Fire, Aim Ready!
The first two demands were Medicaid reform and pension reform. Now redistricting reform has been added to the list. The Ds should have taken the first offer, because redistricting changes are harder for them to swallow than the other two.
On the other hand, for any of the elected officials or any of us here to try to portray one party or the other as the ones at fault is specious. As an earlier poster said, the people about to get screwed don't care about partisan politics, they just want their government to stop behaving like a dysfunctional family at Thanksgiving dinner. I don't think that's too much to expect.
The Rs should keep the high ground, insisting on long term reforms, and straightforwardly state that they will support necessary budget cuts and revenue enhancements in return for those reforms.
Yeah, but is it one that anyone outside this blog really understands or cares about? So, even if the GOPs "win," do they really win? They vote for a tax hike for this?