CapitolFax.com - Latest Comments in Question of the day

Re: Question of the day

Tessa — Thu, 16 Nov 2006 22:17:48 -0000

Must be nice to be in your local school district. Out in the corn fields, it's not that way, and my pension with my deferred comp isn't going to be near that high. Those I worked with who took early retirement, with the exception of a penny pinching merit comp boss I had, are watching their pennies because they don't have piles of money sitting around to spend. Nice dreams, though, that you and others weave of those retiring with TRS, SERS, etc. pensions. It's not the reality.

Re: Question of the day

Angie — Thu, 16 Nov 2006 22:12:43 -0000

[...professors whose degrees come from diploma mills...]

Plenty of those around. Only a few universities worth going to in Illinois, and from what I'm reading, U of I is losing their top people to other institutions.

Education quality is very important, and you can tell a lot about the quality by those who have graduated from the various schools. I actually gave up a fully renewable scholarship from a regional school to attend a better university precisely because the quality wasn't great. Not a single test, quiz, mid-term, or paper that was longer than 5 pages. THAT is a diploma mill, and there are lots of 'em around. Yet that's where some of the educators graduate from. Yikes.

Re: Question of the day

PalosParkBob — Thu, 16 Nov 2006 21:44:37 -0000

Rich: Sorry about the "un-PC" comments about a "Soprano" method for correcting dysfunctional social behavior. It was a feeble, Kerryesque attempt at humor. I guess I've been hangin' with my Cicero homeys too much recently.

I want to make it clear that I do not recommend using lethal force as a means of resolving anti-social behavior. In fact, I'm strongly against the death penalty, for reasons that are best saved for a future thread.

Steve: The math isn't so "simple" as you state. First, your 33% numbers are way low, especially for "career" public school teachers. The number's closer to 75% for a teacher with over 30 years service who meets pension requirements.

Next, you ignore the fact that most state pension funds escalate payments at a rate of about 3% per year "automatically".

You are right to point out that State employee salaries have been escalating far faster than inflation. That's one of the main reasons that pension funding hasn't kept up with pension obligations.

It's simple math; escalating salaries and benefits faster than growth of tax revenues (and state income) will lead to structural deficit.

That's the political choice made by about 80% of Illinois public school district, which has resulted in deficits and "need" for tax increases.

The reason I asked Tessa these questions is that I understand that current TRS average 2005 pensions are about $60K, more than 50% greater than current "average" state government pensions, even though they're being increased at 3% per year.

Until the State takes all currently legal action to slow the growth of state and school employee pensions to increases in revenues through growth of Illinois income, we will continue to have the "structural deficit" that will eventually bury the State pension program, along with most other state services.

I agree Tessa. If I were a state, TRS, or SURS employee, I'd find the concept of pensions "only" going up by the CPI "irritating" too.

Steve and Tessa, I suggest you take a look a Vanguard's website to determine the present worth value of "typical" TRS pensions. I've run a few numbers based upon my local school districts, and the "value" of the pension was equivalent to a single tax free payment of between one and two million dollars at retirement.

When you consider that the "average" current retiree gets the equivalent of over a million dollars in present worth pension benefit at retriement, is it any wonder the pension fund is on life support?

Re: Question of the day

Tessa — Thu, 16 Nov 2006 20:11:39 -0000

PalosParkBob - You'll be waiting a long time for me to respond, because I find you too irritating to respond to. I'm not going to answer your questions because quite frankly I was referring to Cassandra's repeated references to state employees as you would have noted in my answer above.

I'm only going to get a decent retirement, if I stay in the state system long enough to retire from it, due to my enrollment in deferred comp. It's not like Illinois has the best retirement system in the U.S.. Ya'll make it sound like people retire from the state as millionaires.

Re: Question of the day

steve schnorf — Thu, 16 Nov 2006 19:18:22 -0000

Whoops,
2003-100 people retire
2004-100 people retire
2005-100 people retire
2006-100 people retire
Now, can you do the math? If so, you will understand why the pension of someone who retires this year will always be higher than the average pension of the people who retired befor this year.
If not, I give up on you.

Re: Question of the day

steve schnorf — Thu, 16 Nov 2006 19:15:42 -0000

PPB, try a little simple math. Let's say for purposes of discussion that employees reire at pensions of 33% of their salary, and to make it easy, wages to the currently employed go up at 4.2% per year, and 100 people reire each year.
So, again to make it easy, let's start with a base average salary of retiree of $10,000/year. OK,
1996-100 people retire
1997-100 people retire
1998-100 people retire
1999-100 people retire
2000-100 people retire
2001-100 people retire
2002-100 people retire

Re: Question of the day

Rich Miller — Thu, 16 Nov 2006 17:13:52 -0000

PalosParkBob, that was truly an idiotic thing to say.

Re: Question of the day

PalosParkBob — Thu, 16 Nov 2006 17:07:01 -0000

By the way, retired guy, it may not be such a bad idea if social workers had more than a little "Tony Soprano" in them.

Anyone who's seen the series knows that he's an expert in dealing with "social problems". Usually it involves a 9mm "intervention" to the back of the head!

Talk about a motivating factor in getting your act together!

Re: Question of the day

PalosParkBob — Thu, 16 Nov 2006 16:58:07 -0000

retired guy, what level of competence do you think we're getting in public employees now?

College of education students typically have the lowest entrance exam scores and lowest class ranks of the "professional schools".

The cream of that crop generally leaves public employment within four years, because they quickly learn that doing your job well in public service, especially public education, is completely irrelevant to their financial rewards.

These "movers and shakers", the people who really could bring world class performance to public service and especially education, often wind up going to "privatized" public service, without union hindrance and repression, and do very well.

One wonders when you last tried to recruit a young employee. Try selling them on the idea that a huge pension benefit MIGHT be there for them in 30 years, if the system doesn't go broke and the public doesn't rebel against its excesses.

They'll ask you how quickly their salary will increase if they do a great job, and their performance is much better than the "dead wood" they see. If you're honest, you'll tell them that no matter how well they do their job and how valuable their services are, they'll be stuck in a "seniority and classwork" compensation system.

That loses the top prospects right away.

Who's then left to be "public employees"? With some notable exceptions, the politically ambitous who'll "network" in the system until they can become a consultant or independednt contractor, and those who just want to be a "warm body", get raises without having to prove they deserve them, and people who just want to retire early on fat pensions.

By the way, Tessa, are you there? Tessa,(knock knock),Tessa?

oops! Looks like she doesn't like to discuss the facts about public empoyee pensions very much!

Re: Question of the day

retiredguy — Thu, 16 Nov 2006 15:04:30 -0000

Ever think what it would cost to hire competent state employees if we didn't have a healthy pension system? Illinois would always get the leftovers and that means state police with an average IQ, professors whose degrees come from diploma mills, teachers who scramble to keep pace with their students, social workers who model themselves after Tony Soprano, etc. If adequately funded, pensions help the State to get talent now and pay for it later. Some of the extra tax dollars must go to keep the pension systems afloat.

Re: Question of the day

PalosParkBob — Thu, 16 Nov 2006 13:32:13 -0000

Question for "know it all" Tessa:

Since you apparently part of the contract negotiating team, please "educate" us all on the following info:

1.How much of the annual State pension obligation is being paid to "early retirees" in the TRS, SURS, and all other state funded pension programs?

2.If State and public employees able to opt out of the Social Securtity system were getting the same benefits as the rest of us poor schmucks get, how much less would the stae pension fund obligation be? Follow up: What percentage of salary do state and public employees in Illinois pay compared to deductions from those of us in the Social Security System and OUR employers?

Please explain what it takes to dismiss an incompetent civil service or tenured teacher, as compared toi the rest of us "at will" employees.

I understand that "average" pensions are about $38 fro state and teaching employees.

Please educate us on what the average annual pension payments to employees retiring in 2005 were, and please explain why there's such a huge increase "above average".

I'll be waiting with bated breadth for your "expert" response!

Re: Question of the day

Tessa — Thu, 16 Nov 2006 12:50:06 -0000

Cassandra, if you don't know what the benefits are that state employees and retirees get, then please be quiet. You act like you know so much about state employees, but you don't, so just stop it, please. State employees are not being replaced by the thousands, or even the hundreds. That is laughable. Every single, that is by the ONE, goes through the governors office for approval. And they don't come fast or easily, because he doesn't think any agency needs more staff, which is why we work thousands of hours of mandatory overtime. So quit telling everyone here your theories about state employees, working and retired. I, as a state employee, one who worked on the current contract, who knows the system, am tired of it.

I'm sorry, YDD, Little E, Steven Schnorf, I tried, and I tried, but I couldn't ignore her anymore. ARGH.

I guess maybe I need to walk away from the blog for a while and take a deep breath.

Re: Question of the day

4% — Thu, 16 Nov 2006 09:42:52 -0000

Bigger ball stadium in Marion - maybe one that seats 80,000 - 90,000 people - it can double as the Olympic Stadium in 2016.

More tax credits for movies and a big replica "Hollywood" signed posted on the Thompson Building in Chicago.

Re: Question of the day

Cassandra — Thu, 16 Nov 2006 09:37:21 -0000

Health insurance is free to former Illinois government employees. Nobody gets free meds but
most people don't define health insruance as including prescription drugs.Even those on Social Security.

Large employers (other than government entities)
locked by contract into expensive defined benefit pensions are trying to get out of them.
Over time, they likely will. New GM employees will not get the lavish benefits of their predecessors.

But comparing government pensions with other large unionized employers is a red herring. Why should government employees have substantial pensions if the bulk of their fellow working citizens do not, pensions their counterparts must fund while saving for their own retirements. And why should so much of state's resources go to funding these pensions. instead of funding health care for all, schools, care for the disabled, and so on. It's a misuse of limited resources. A few of the privileged taking money from the rest of us. And the return is minimal, I might add, especially in the patronage-ridden state bureacracies.

Re: Question of the day

Angie (post-script again) — Thu, 16 Nov 2006 02:41:45 -0000

I'm sorry for hogging three posts, but Rod's behavior on this issue just makes me want to scream.

http://www.dailysouthtown.c...

He's going to protect the folks whose industry association gave him about a quarter mil in contributions, but he won't work with our very very popular Attorney General?

If the Tribune still reads Cap Fax, will you folks please put on a full court press over this issue? Please!

This is the healthcare governor? Won't back AG Madigan on the issue? He only jumps for those who throw money at him, I suppose. Not the little lady AG who really truly cares about human beings. No siree. Can't work with her office at all.

I hope Lisa runs for gov and takes this jerk out. If Topinka couldn't, then maybe a Dem needs to do the job instead. That's the only hope left in this state, for decent Dems to step up and fix some of the mess around here.

Re: Question of the day

Angie (post-script) — Thu, 16 Nov 2006 02:33:48 -0000

Meant to add "a waaaay popular Attorney General" in that last post.

Re: Question of the day

Angie — Thu, 16 Nov 2006 02:31:50 -0000

[Hire a couple of big goons to make Blago hand over all the documents and subpoenas to Lisa and the press.] ~ Buck Flagojevich

Rod being on the wrong side of Lisa Madigan, a waaaaaay popular, is going to be nothing but more trouble for him, especially since he and Madigan are at odds over the charity care issue for the non-profit hospitals.

I hope every nook and cranny of the healthcare financial industry (namely the sleazy collections agencies that got everyone in trouble over their heavy-handed tactics) gets a giant spotlight shining in. There's no better time to fix this mess than now, and I do believe it'll demonstrate to Illinoisans (yes, even Dems) just how much Rod is all about power and ego and campaign contributions, since he has stated in a news report that he won't be working with the AG on her charity care issue. Wow. Talk about arrogance.

Can't work with the little lady AG, huh Rod? Mr. Testicular Virility can't take the little lady as the state's top attorney tellin' him what to do, eh? Eh?

I hope the press NAILS him on this issue (hinty hint hint hint).

Re: Question of the day

Yellow Dog Democrat — Thu, 16 Nov 2006 00:38:00 -0000

steve schnorf & Little Egypt -

Please quit annoying Cassandra with facts.

In case you didn't read her post, she thinks "it's reasonable to assume."

Please stop being unreasonable, and just agree with her fantastical assumptions.

Little Egypt -- if she says your meds are free, not $40 a month, they must be free. Do you really think you know more about the cost of your own prescriptions than some anonymous blogger who lives 300 miles away?

Jez, the nerve of some people. I'm sorry Cassandra, you were saying?

YDD

Re: Question of the day

Little Egypt — Wed, 15 Nov 2006 23:41:10 -0000

Cassandra, Mr. and Mrs. Little Egypt are retired and our healthcare is NOT free. We pay a fairly hefty premium each month. Prescription medicine goes up every month and several of our meds now cost $40 each per month. Life as a retired state employee is not on easy street.

Re: Question of the day

steve schnorf — Wed, 15 Nov 2006 23:28:22 -0000

Cassandra, did you read what I said? The number of defined benefit plans among large unionized employers has not changed appreciably over the past several years. Is it that hard to understand?

Re: Question of the day

Cassandra — Wed, 15 Nov 2006 22:14:46 -0000

I don't know how many new employees become eligible every year for a pension under one of the five state pension systems but assuming normal attrition, I think it's reasonable to assume the numbers are in the thousands. I do assume most of them will remain long enough to be eligible for a at least a partial pension. Government pensions and associagted free or almost free new health care are the new great thing, courtesy of Joe and Jill Taxpayer.

The problem is that while their private sector peer make do with 401k's and much reduced benefits, government employees, including teachers,continue to receive the expensive pension and health care benefits which are rapidly becoming extinct in the private sector. Given the many demands on state government dollars, this seems like a poor use of funds.
We will soon find out just how expensive that free or almost free health care is when the state has to comply with the new GASB requirements.

As to comparing the benefits accorded to those in the Illinois pension systems to other large unionized systems, that approach ignores the fact
that large unionized systems with lavish pension benefits are going the way of the dinosaur. Think General Motors.

Of course we can afford to pay lavish pensions in Illinois. But that means less money for schools, universal health care, affordable housing, needs of a far more numerous group of citizens. And those needs should come first. Not those of government employees.

Re: Question of the day

Rex — Wed, 15 Nov 2006 21:53:15 -0000

I agree with Buck Flagojevich 5:43. It is time for the truth.

Re: Question of the day

Lovie's Leather — Wed, 15 Nov 2006 21:29:00 -0000

Pay the bills. No new programs!

Re: Question of the day

The 'Broken Heart' of Rogers P — Wed, 15 Nov 2006 20:23:18 -0000

Tax increase? I didn't hear that in any campaign speech.

Re: Question of the day

Shamus — Wed, 15 Nov 2006 19:24:44 -0000

1. Half the money for Rich Miller

2. Half the money for Pat Hickey and Leo high school