CapitolFax.com - Latest Comments in Question of the day

Re: Question of the day

Skeeter — Thu, 01 Feb 2007 06:49:41 -0000

- From Iroquois County - Thursday, Feb 1, 07 @ 3:03 am:

IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢m actually from Watseka, and we LOVED Chicago, generally speaking.

What irony.
Do you have any idea as to the seriousness of the drug problems in Watseka? I will take most of Chicago over Wateska any day.

If those people are mainstream Illinois, I want none of it. Most of the people have no idea what's going on in their own neighhborhood, so I sure wouldn't trust most of them to run the state.

Re: Question of the day

From Iroquois County — Thu, 01 Feb 2007 04:03:01 -0000

I'm actually from Watseka, and we LOVED Chicago, generally speaking. All of our favorite sports teams, all of the good TV stations (nobody watched the junk out of Champaign), and two great airports were there, among other things.

But yeah, as the comments indicate, we wouldn't trust a Chicago politician with the Ferris Wheel at the County Fair, much less our Country. We DO get Chicago news down there, so we're constantly reminded of how corrupt Chicago politics is. Whether it pertains to Obama specifically or not, it still taints the image of any Chicago politician. And Blagojevich storming downstate and extorting cash from small towns like Watseka didn't help our view of that.

Beyond that, though, Obama's political views are SO different from those of rural Illinois, and I would be quite opposed to him using Watseka as a backdrop for his bid, simply because I'd know he would have no intention of appeasing any of our interests. He'd just be using our town as a way to appeal to Middle America broadly, both the conservative and the liberal parts. And after he left, he'd never think of us again.

Re: Question of the day

PalosParkBob — Wed, 31 Jan 2007 17:11:24 -0000

Country Boy:

If you think Illinois politicians are the most corrupt in the country, you've obviously never lived in New Orleans, especially post Katrina.

They get away with things down there that would make a first ward alderman blush!

DC is another venue where they had a Crack smoking mayor who governed like one, but was kept in power by corrupt racial politics.

At least I think Richie (and most Legislators and at LEAST half the Chicago alderman)could pass drug tests, if not "ethics" tests.

Re: Question of the day

Country Boy — Wed, 31 Jan 2007 15:47:33 -0000

I've lived in San Francisco, Bangkok, and NYC. I now chose to live out in the woods in deep southern Illinois (like 40 miles north of Kentucky). I'm amused that people from Chicago (the city and the 'burbs) think of southern Illinois as south of 104th street. I travel a lot and get to Chicago a lot. I find Chicago to be like most big cities and that's the problem. I like the quiet of having my nearest neighbor be half a mile away. I like the pure air. I like dealing with a rush minute rather than a rush hour. I feel sorry for people who can't or don't live this way. Having taught at Southern Illinois University in Carbondale, I had students from Chicago and from Anna. Basically, there is little or no difference in intelligence and the differences in dialect are, for the most part, merely amusing. My only resentment of Chicago is that Hot Rod and the Boys make it the capitol and misuse my taxes to line their political pockets in Chicago. Let's face it: Illinois has the most corrupt politicians in the country and the party of the politician makes no difference in the corruption. That most of this has centered itself in Chicago may be the biggest cause of the resentment of Chicago.

Re: Question of the day

Common sense — Wed, 31 Jan 2007 10:05:38 -0000

One key difference is control. People from the Chicago area have always had their lives controlled for them (permits, fees, you name it) while the rest of the state enjoys some freedom. Chicago lawmakers feel that they need to control the rest of the state.

Suggestion: a review of state laws often shows some exception to Cook County; why don't we just have laws that apply in Cook County at state level and then the rest of the state (e.g., concealed carry law...valid anywhere in Illinois except within Cook County).

Re: Question of the day

PalosParkBob — Wed, 31 Jan 2007 09:05:08 -0000

Steve Schnorf:

I didn't say suburban rates were higher, although they may well be as a percentage of Adjusted Gross Income because of exemptions, credits, and farm income "advantages" in state tax law.

I'm talking about per capita state income tax revenue, which I'm sure you'll agree is the highest in the Burbs.

We pay the most to the state and get the least return. As Rich so succinctly stated in his earlier post, we are the lone "net givers" in the state.

The problem is that the Suburban Republican legislators are dominated by downstaters, and Suburban Dem legislators are dominated by Madigan, Jones, and the Chicago machine.

I guess we Suburbanites deserve what we get for allowing both parties to plunder us, while electing legislators from both parties that ignore our constituent interest for their personal political and financial gain.

Re: Question of the day

steve schnorf — Wed, 31 Jan 2007 00:53:57 -0000

Bob,
I didn't realize that suburbanites paid a higher income tax rate than Chicagoans. That certainly is unfair.
Or, perhaps you mean because of our progressive tax rate system in Illinois, upper income earners pay a higher rate than middle class. Either way, I'm really impressed with your observation.

Re: Question of the day

Six Degrees of Separation — Wed, 31 Jan 2007 00:32:08 -0000

I grew up in the suburbs, worked for a while in Chicago and still visit occasionally for business and recreation, had relatives in southern IL, and settled in the fringes of exurbia. There are very few counties I haven't been in, at least passing through.

In my line of work, I get to mingle with everyone from central IL farmers to suburban mayors to Chicago executives. I sense a recognition by the downstaters that Chicago has earned its keep by being an economic engine for the rest of the state, a center for arts, sports and other entertainment, and a rich cultural history.

That being said, they are troubled by the one-party rule, the collective clout of a monolithic voting bloc, the perceived and real greed, graft and corruption "endemic" to the city's political culture, other general cultural sins, and an increasing realization the city now has control of the political levers.

The race thing is there for some, but here's the thing. There are increasing #'s of blacks who are finding refuge from urban ills here. And the Hispanic population of some areas, especially in southern IL, has turned local demographics inside-out. The once lily-white enclaves of downstate are getting new neighbors, and learning they are people with many of the same fears, hopes, dreams and problems that they have. So I am hopeful that the "us-vs-them" demographic attitude is fading, albeit slowly. Welfare/public aid prejudice is just as likely to be directed inward as toward Chicago; there's plenty of Section 8 housing and food stamps here. Heck, in some SE IL counties, the % of aid recipients is double Cook County's. and meth labs are as prevalent in the cornfields as crack houses in Chicago.

And what's with "south of I-80" as a dividing line? The people of Park Forest and Kankakee are way more "Chicago" than the people of Savanna and Freeport. And the people west of IL 47 and north of 80 are heavily Scandinavian (with Rockford as Stockholm-on-the-Rock), while east of IL 47 and north of 80 is a cultural smorgasbord (with Chicago as Babylon-on-the-lake).

Bottom line, it's a lot more complicated than "us vs. them."

Re: Question of the day

GoIllini — Tue, 30 Jan 2007 23:52:54 -0000

There are a few factors to keep in mind about the commentors to any SJ-R article. First, aside from the mayor of Springfield, most politicians in the SJ-R's distribution area are Repubs. For that matter, Sangamon County is staunchly Republican (just look at the makeup of the county board). So, most of the population reading the SJ-R are not too keen on any Dems, including Obama. Second, the State is one of the top employers in Springfield, and regardless of your political affiliation, everyone here pretty much is sick and tired of Blago. So, that taint spreads to all aspects of the political spectrum, especially the dreaded "Chicago politician" category. I've lived in central Illinois all my life, went to graduate school in Carbondale, and travel to Chicago on a regular basis for work or to visit relatives. The pretty stark differences in the Chicago lifestyle versus the downstate lifestyle probably explain each side making over-generalizations of the other. (That said, almost everyone I know from out of state, usually from larger cities on the east coast, have the same impression of Chicago after visiting - "Gee, it's like a really big small town." It's meant as a compliment, but underscores that Chicago is maybe not so different than downstate after all.) (Some of these points may have been made already, but I don't have the stamina to read each posting.)

Re: Question of the day

47th Ward — Tue, 30 Jan 2007 23:33:28 -0000

I think "over by dere" has it about right. Good post!

Like Rich, I've been to Blue's cafe and the Herscher homecoming parade, and I also had to sit through a Pat Hickey lecture in HS circa 1982. So, while not in "southern Illinois," my mom always told me not to make friends in Kankakee, we'd be back in Chicago soon enough. She considered it forced exile since my dad was transferred there.

Since 1989, I've lived in Chicago, but have had the privilege of travelling with politicians through every media market in Illinois, and I've learned enough to know how blessed we are to have such a richly diverse state, unlike any other.

What divides us is small, what unites us is more important. We're lucky in Illinois.

Re: Question of the day

A guy — Tue, 30 Jan 2007 22:51:23 -0000

The answer is, I think he's using the plaza outside the old capitol building, which is available to anybody that wants to use it and does the paperwork for permits. There have been many, MANY politicians that have done that there over the years. I remember being in the crowd there one evening to hear Hillary stumping for Bill. Another time, it was Dukakis there, etc. Many state buildings are available to be rented by any citizen, within rules and limits. Some of those rules have probably changed since 9-11, but you used to be able to rent out the ground floor of the State Capitol, various fairgrounds buildings, the Armory, and even part of the Dana-Thomas House, for things like wedding receptions and parties. Some of the Springfield schools used to rent out the inside of the Revenue building downtown for evening homecoming parties and proms, because it had an elegant multilevel quality with nice interior spaces... much nicer than a gymnasium. As the taxpayers, we own these places so it makes sense we should be able to use them like this, within reason. The money from the rentals helped defray some costs of upkeep or pay for a special project like repairing the heating system or whatever.

I guess those days are mostly gone now; we easily surrendered them in the Holy Name of "Security" to over-zealous folks who were protecting us from evildoers, don'tchaknow.

Re: Question of the day

NotABlagoFan — Tue, 30 Jan 2007 22:36:23 -0000

I have a question - how can he use the Old State Capitol for a political announcement? I thought there was a law prohibiting the use of sites such as the Old State Capitol for political purposes other than those related to the State?

Re: Question of the day

Save a horse, Ride a Harley — Tue, 30 Jan 2007 22:30:06 -0000

Well, you know if you are not from Chicago then you are a bumpkin, hick and cannot have anything going for you. This is the prevailing attitude today and was when I was at the U of I. I'd rather have St. Louis, they can win a National League pennant and a world series!

Re: Question of the day

anonymous — Tue, 30 Jan 2007 22:08:27 -0000

Springfield isn't an example of a progressive capital city. But I think Obama has the right idea in announcing here regardless of what the crackhead SJ-R bloggers are saying. There's the historical significance here that he couldn't get elsewhere.
and, for those with short memories Governor Blagojevich wasn't the first politico to go negative on the bureaucrats. Didn't Speaker Madigan give the suburbanites in Chatham a fit some years back? That was hilarious. if you can't tell--I'm waiting for Springfield and the surrounding area to come around on their politics and I don't see a mass conversion just yet

Re: Question of the day

Anon — Tue, 30 Jan 2007 22:05:12 -0000

I think the issue has raised the ugliest part of its head in the last 4 years or so b/c the Governor seems to have a disdain for downstate. From a Springfield perspective, the issue is that Springfield is the state capital. Period. The Governor should live here. State government should operate from here.

This, I think, is a separate issue from the Chicago vs. Downstate issue. Generally, having grown up in a small town downstate just south of Bloomington-Normal, I think the issue is fear and misunderstanding. Having grown up in a town of 2,000 people we could not possibly understand how someone could handle living in such a large city or even want to. Quiet streets, playing outside after dark and being safe, etc. are things we value. Chicago didn't and doesn't fit that image to us.

Re: Question of the day

Skeeter — Tue, 30 Jan 2007 21:37:46 -0000

What I find interesting about some of the debate here is the reference to welfare, but then the denial of racism.

As if the people outside of Chicago do not have people on welfare.

As if none of the people on welfare are white.

As if drugs only exist in Chicago.

It is interesting to see how much of a state of denial there is from the downstaters. They perceive all the problems, such as welfare, drugs and crime, to be limited to Chicago. They fail to see the meth dealers and the single mothers on welfare on their own neighborhoods. They fail to see the gangs in their own neighborhoods.

I've been outside of Chicago and I've seen those problems. They do exist.

For a lot of the people downstate, I suspect there is a significant racist component for the reasons stated -- they have a problem with Blacks on welfare and on drugs and in gangs, but don't notice when the white people have the same issues.

Re: Question of the day

over by dere — Tue, 30 Jan 2007 19:30:52 -0000

Born and raised in Chicago and the burbs, have lived downstate for many years now and seen most every corner of Illinois. Illinois has a little bit of almost everything a state could want, except for mountains. While garden of the Gods down south and the hills in Galena are pretty, we don;t really have mountians except the man-made ones of the Chicago skyline, but I could stare at that marvel for years and not tire of it.

First of all, the majority of people claiming to be Chicagoans... aren't. They are suburbanites who claim to be Chicagoans for the cachet of it, but aren't willing to actually live inside the city limits, on the city's terms, good and bad. Their vapid sprawl-dominated collections of chain restaurants and car dealerships lacks both the culture and character of the City. When they make fun of downstaters, it's just the same as those insecure kids in junior hight that made fun of other people's appearance to make themselves feel bigger. Pay them little mind.

It's the Western part of the state I feel badly for. they call themselves 'forgottonia', and in some ways they are right. Sparsely settled, agricultural, and without as many large, direct transportation routes, they have been forced to forge an identity distinct and apart from North AND South. Maybe that's why they take their historic roots so seriously out that way.

My downstate friends who talk about Chicago are intimidated by the size when contemplating a visit. I tell them it's a city of neighborhoods, not unlike their own, and while the downtown can look a little forbidding with all the skyscrapers, the neighborhoods all have their own individual flavors and attractions, just like any small town does. When I take them there on a trip, I emphasize going to smaller "joints" with lots of local color and flavor, and pretty soon my downstater friends can say they have a favorite place to visit while "up there".

I initially found downstaters to be stand-offish and quiet, and much more deliberate in their speech and expression, taking their time to gather the thoughts before saying them, and taking their time to see what kind of person you are before letting you into their personal circles. They found me too fast-talking, with a tendency to over-anticipate what they were going to say. I must say they have taught me patience and pacing. What was a revelation was that they shared a lot of my traditional values and our upbringing in that regard was not so different after all.

I was unnerved for a long time after my downstate move, to see total strangers wave at me on the corners and not be hookers or dealers(grin). It took a long time to be able to walk along a road without sidewalks and not jump everytime the wind sighed like the sound of rolling car tires on asphalt. I still think people down here walking, that don't use the sidewalks are unsafe idiots, but now I keep it to myself.

I am reminded of something George Ryan said at a speech one time. That it truly is one state, and that success and development in one area translates to a good for all of us everywhere, so we should not be envious of one "family" member's success, just as we cannot ignore the troubles of any other family member. He was talking about how tax revenue from O'Hare was spent on projects statewide, but his remarks resonated in me that day.

We're in it together, we all have gifts to share, every spot I've visited in this great state has had it's own unique delights, just like any group of people you throw together. Differences are great, the variety makes us more interesting. Celebrate the variety we have, while we recognize our connected, singular destiny.

Re: Question of the day

Papa Legba — Tue, 30 Jan 2007 18:19:13 -0000

It plain to see backwardsness and ignorance are the root cause. They think Chicago is a threat to their lives if they go there. It's too bid and scary for them. Like I would want to be in the woods around Springfield during deer season. That scares me.

Anybody who would live in Springfield has to be backward. What a nasty little big town.

Re: Question of the day

Juice — Tue, 30 Jan 2007 17:57:03 -0000

Just channeling him Rich, just channeling

Re: Question of the day

Rich Miller — Tue, 30 Jan 2007 17:39:52 -0000

From what I recall about past studies, Chicago is about even when it comes to what it sends to spfld and what it gets back. The suburbs are net givers. Downstate is a net taker.

Re: Question of the day

Yellow Dog Democrat — Tue, 30 Jan 2007 17:34:17 -0000

BTW, just a note, Metro-Easters hardly ever even think about Chicago, let alone have something bad to say about it.

And to One of 35, I have to agree in part with ObjectiveDem. I know that Central Illinois has more state employees per capita than Chicago or any other part of the state, especially when you include the state universities, so I highly doubt your claim that Chicago gets more tax dollars per capita.

It reminds me of the old notion that Blue States are welfare states. In fact, the exact opposite is true. Blue states pay more in federal taxes then they get back, while red states tend to get back more than they pay.

If Central Illinoisians are worried about their tax dollars fleeing, they should look to New Mexico, Alaska, West Virginia, Mississippi, North Dakota and Virginia, according to this 2004 report.

Note that Illinois, New York, California, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Massachusetts, Oregon, Washington, Michigan, New Jersey, Maryland, Connecticut and Delaware -- all states that Kerry won in 2004 -- pay more in federal taxes than they get back from the federal government. Of the states Kerry won, only Maine, Vermont and Rhode Island got back more than they paid.

Re: Question of the day

Jechislo — Tue, 30 Jan 2007 17:34:12 -0000

Blagevich, Mike Madigan, Emil Jones. Need I say more. I am from downstate. I am not represented. I am disgusted. Barack, stay on your own turf. You're not any more welcome here that Hot Rod.

Re: Question of the day

Rich Miller — Tue, 30 Jan 2007 17:29:22 -0000

GC, you should check out Blue's Cafe. Good stuff. It's on Station Street, not far from where my dad grew up.

And Juice, are you Emil Jones, or just channeling him?

Re: Question of the day

Juice — Tue, 30 Jan 2007 17:27:41 -0000

Where's Rockford?

Re: Question of the day

God's Country — Tue, 30 Jan 2007 17:26:24 -0000

Sorry, y'all lost me after chicken fried steak. mmmmmmm good. lol

Seriously, Illinois without Chicago is Iowa. The problem is Chicago doesn't let the rest of us forget it.