I'm just surprised he showed up for it. Was he on time?
WP
· 3 years ago
I thought that Topinka did well, keeping Rod on the defensive. I'm sure he wasn't happy in the SUV ride back to his house for his run afterward.
This was a case of Rod not being able to use his Reagan-esque debate tactics (though he tried with the "Here she goes again" line) and was cut down by a seriously focused Topinka.
Round 1, Judy Baar on points.
Reddbyrd
· 3 years ago
Not sure either one. I assume Judy Bore will look for new attack lines when she notices no one picking up on Public Official A and Dick Kay scolding her for using double hearsay from a swindler who was pleading guilty. It was good to see WMAQ-TV put the whole debate on the web and Capt. Fax for breaking into his holiday respite to tell us it was there.
potomac fever
· 3 years ago
RedByrd- "No one picking up on Public official A"? It seems to me that that was the soundbite of the debate, it was the lede in a myriad of print articles and was used repeatedly in electronic (tv and radio) reports. I guess wishing it so, doesn't make it so.
bored now
· 3 years ago
i certainly like this format better than the "joint press conferences" that we usually call debates, but it's hard to see why the front-runner (who ever it is this week) would agree to it...
Cassandra
· 3 years ago
JBT is clearly smarter than Blago but her absence of concrete alternatives was disturbing. She did well more by virtue of his obvious deficienices than by her own strength. Obama (and I'm not a fan) or Bill Clinton (not a fan of Bill either) would have chewed her up and spit her out. So would Arnie.
I do understand that presenting detailed plans early in the game allows more time for the opp to tear them to pieces. Hope the campaign staff doesn't mess up the timing on this, though.
Lawman
· 3 years ago
"Public official A" is 'double hearsay from a conman'?? It's from Joe Cari - former Chair of the National Democratic Finance Committe.
zatoichi
· 3 years ago
I like debates much better in this style than the highly scripted stuff from Presidential debates. Kay was great in moving the talk along and being the ref. He started with a pointed question and did not let up.
Neither one has impressive debating skills. Rod could not get off his talking points and repeated the same arguments at an increasingly faster pace. Nerves? Pissed? JBT got the points/zingers in that she needed to make her case. She seemed a little more comfortable with a go for the throat attitude. Loved the name calling. They both tended to drift towards personal attacks in that "political" way that SNL used to parody so well. Hope these debates keep going this way with some more substance.
JBT seemed to come out ahead. Judy giving the trophy to Kay at the end for a great run with his show while Rod just sat there with nothing was the capper.
wndycty
· 3 years ago
Cassandra its hard to say Judy is "clearly smarter than Blago" if she shows up without "concrete alternatives." She is not running a good campaign at all. She won the GOP nomination without introducing new ideas. Love him or hate him Blago has been advancing ideas and that is called leadership. Judy has just been the number one complainer and if there are no indictments by election day SHE HAS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO RUN ON. The people of this state are not going to vote for someone who is hoping for indictments in an effort to boost her sad simple candidacy.
VanillaMan
· 3 years ago
Saw the debate, loved Kay and that format. What made it work so well was the fact that we saw both candidates thinking and reacting. As the challenger, Topinka has to throw the kitchen sink at Blagojevich, just as he threw it at Ryan in 2002. Judy wailed on Blagojevich and he sputtered and blinked a lot.
Blagojevich has realized that he has to deal with a female candidate, and that he is the guy who gets beaten up this time. So, considering how much moolah he has, it is too bad no one seemed to prepare him for her onslaught. All candidates realize eventually that running as an opponent is easier than running for reelection, and this fact just dawned on Blagojevich.
Did he really think he could just accuse her of being against everything and we'd listen to that? Who would expect a challenger at this point to present alternatives at this point of a campaign, when it is their job right now to attack? Topinka has too much to choose from when it comes to attack weapons against Blagojevich.
What Topinka did very well accidentially was address Kay over Blagojevich, making him look inconsequential and weak. When she leaned over Blagojevich and asked Kay if he could believe what they were being told, that moment really nailed the incumbant. She neededs to do more of that when she can.
Topinka's body language showed that she was in command. Blagojevich looked like he wet his pants. He spoke faster and faster and watching him nod his head with her as she denounced him was, I'm sure, not intended, and made him look weak.
As for Blagojevich, he did what got him elected in the first place, rattled off his goodies list and reminded supporters why they voted for him. Did he have a coach? It looks like he didn't!
Blagojevich might discover that his mannerisms worked as a challenger, but as an incumbant, his mannerism come off as weak. He was not in control. I couldn't believe he asked Topinka a question, opening himself up to more credible attacks and allowing her to reinforce her sound bite.
Blagojevich needs to do something he is loathed to do; study up and practice for the next debate. She skinned him alive.
B Hicks
· 3 years ago
Judy loses big time. She came across as bitter and sarcastic, without anything to offer as an alternative to what she was being critical of. Dick even had to remind her that she was running for Governor, “you should have a plan on education.†For a minute, I thought Rod was debating Momma Fratelli.
The 100,000 jobs created thing made her look silly.
If you watched it, you witnessed Topinka’s 2006 election. Nothing but criticism and complaints. Public official A, pay to play, investigations is her arsenal. Unfortunately for her, Rod can throw the exact same issues right back at her. He’s right, her hypocrisy is breathtaking!
P.S. If her Ace in the hole is a high level indictment, well, Edwin was counting on an indictment, too. Don’t get your hopes up.
Woe is us
· 3 years ago
Judy was scary, reminded me of the old lady next door that kept yelling as us kids when we stepped on her lawn.
Merlin
· 3 years ago
Blago did okay considering how much ammo JBT has. She needed to get more specific. I can't believe she didn't list exactly what the Governor's office is being investigated for. The hiring scandel in itself would have sunk him in this debate.
Reddbyrd
· 3 years ago
PotomacFever: I think the stories used the "At least, I have a name, you're public official A" line, Which I am sure you agree makes next to no sense. Joe Cari could the king of the Dem. party, but he was quoting Stu Levine who was allegedly quoting someone else. And he was trying to keep his butt out of the slammer. I know that makes senese to all you deep thinkers out there, but just outside the Blogville is a place called Illinois. Voters still favor GRod over the AccordiOnGal. Oh yeah and then there was that little "typo" about job creation. I can relate to typos, but it is hard for someone who wants us to believe she is the Sayer of All Things True when she bungles those numbers. Anyone been invited to the education brainstorming session yet?
ChicagoCynic
· 3 years ago
Excellent debate - a lot of fun.
The debate presented a narrative that will carry this entire campaign.
Judy: You're a crook spending money we don't have. Rod: I'm far less of a crook than your bestest buddy George Ryan. JBT: Yes, but you're still a crook. Rod: Well at least I've demonstrated leadership in education and a vision for Illinois. JBT: Yes, but how are you going to pay for it?
JBT got off a great line with the "I've still got a name but you're Public Official A" bit. The media loved it, but I wonder whether anyone but insiders understands the reference. I mean how many people outside of CapFax readers really read the Cari plea agreement.
As for Rod, he did a really good job of changing the subject to his agenda and leadership in education and an even better job of demonstrating that after 20+ years of public service, Judy has no vision and nothing to run on other than to get elected. It was very effective and picked up by pretty much every columnist and pundit.
Rod's best line came after she said she'd be releasing her education plan later this summer. He basically said "wait a minute, you've been a state rep, state senator and treasurer for 20+ years and you still don't know what you'd like to do about education!? Then why in the world are you running?"
Oh, and lawman, Cari didn't claim Rod was orchestrating anything. What he said is that Levine told him that Rod a/k/a Public Official A was involved. That is double hearsay and the conman is Stu Levine.
Establishment Republican
· 3 years ago
How ironic that the public official who once bragged about his “testicular virility†is now crying about being hit “below the belt.â€Â
Also, this was a part of the Google Blog listing on this site yesterday. Is this satire or might this be for real?
The deep thinkers have already looked at this education press release and said it will not work and there is not 10 billion there.It is so bad that they will not release the study done because it will as usual make the the Governor's office look like the idiots they are.Remember keno and all the other fallacies.The press and political pundents gave the win to JBT and from all the name calling and crying on here she won big time. She's ready for round 2 and he's still trying to figure out what hit him.It would probably make more sense if this guy resigned than take the beating she is going to give him.
Ashur Odishoo
· 3 years ago
I have to give the overall win to Topinka for the "at least I have a name" comment, however Blago scored a few points himself with the point that at least he has a plan. Topinka needs an education initiative to counteract the Meeks buy-out.
Both scored points with the "you are George Ryan" concept, however, Topinka wins on this because her contracts are open bid while Blago has simply sold the state.
Round 1: Topinka
Ashur Odishoo Candidate State Representative 11th District
Cynthia
· 3 years ago
I came away thinking, what is her platform?
Road Dahl
· 3 years ago
Judy Topinka was orange from head to foot like an Oompa Loompa and Rod looks like Mike TV. Dick Kay looks like Augustus Gloop's mother. There has to be a Charlie Bucket out there somewhere...
Roomate
· 3 years ago
I may have went into this with a biased opinion, but I thought Blago did better. From the media coverage you would have thought that Topinka won handily, but Blago more than held his own I thought. Of course, as I mentioned I went in thinking Topinka walked away with it due to several media reports. Topinka had better zingers, but I thought the governor was more professional and had much more substance to his arguements. I give the edge to Blago in the debate and Topinka in debate coverage.
B Hicks
· 3 years ago
The debate proves that Topinka is not up to the challenge of being governor. She would be a huge step backwards for Illinois. Like the governor said, 20+ years in state government and she doesn't have a plan. Not one!
It is easy to sit back and cast brickbats and criticisms to impress the fans, as Ms. Topinka did. That is what politicians and nay-sayers do.
It is not easy to solve problems and make hard and responsible decisions when faced with a deficit inherited from a previous administration, as the governor has done. But that is what leaders do.
leigh
· 3 years ago
Here is a thought. After watching the debate I think both candidates should donate their war chests to charity and we should find a third person to vote for.
Bubs
· 3 years ago
It's also easy to make a bunch of irresponsible spending promises you can't possibly meet, hoping the suckers won't realize that until after Election Day. That's not "vision," that's Old-Fashioned Snake Oil.
I like Topinka's "Fabian strategy." To bring out a plan now would only create fodder for the Blago campaign, which is desperately trying to shift the focus off of him. She's keeping her distance, calmly watching Rod's campaign drown in a cesspool of his own making. She has plenty of time to make her moves.
anon
· 3 years ago
i thought the press coverage was pretty fair. everybody called topinka on her whining and attacking and general lack of any plans to improve the state. blago will have to figure out how to counter attack without looking like he is picking on a girl. she plays that role well, as she did in the primary.
anon
· 3 years ago
i'm still waiting for eisendrath to pull off the topinka mask. She is pathetic and she is a hypocrite.
can't imagine
· 3 years ago
so how about this idea...since leasing the Tollway, the Illinois Lottery and the Skyway are great ideas because the private sector can operate them better than the state, why not sell the Governor's job!!! Lots of CEO's out there looking for wokr how could do better than Rod.
B Hicks
· 3 years ago
Topinka’s going to have big problems with her funding planâ€â€if she ever introduces one. She has three options: raise taxes, cut services, or come up with a plan similar to the governor’s new plan. Simple as that.
What’s a girl to do?
potomac fever
· 3 years ago
Red Byrd- Just the mention of "Public Official A" in the same breathe with a sitting governor conjures up all kind of bad voodoo in this political environment. All the explaining and posturing relative to who said what at what time to whom in the US Attorney's office is a moot point just like the current accusations regarding a certain Lawyer in Metro East who has a world of hurt due to the allegations on some pretty unpleasant charges involving minors
dumb ol' country boy
· 3 years ago
Judy looked bad when she was questioned about her 100,000 job creation, but that was being questioned by Mr.Kay, not Hot Rod. Other then that she did a tremendous job, next debate, back off on the attacks, and start defining yourself, she needs to start talking about what her administration will do, with an occasional reminder of Hot Rod's blunders, start being more electable. Wonderful job of talking to Mr.Kay about Rod, like he wasn't even there, she commanded respect and Rod gave it to her. Reddbyrd and B Hicks, get out of the Dems Campaign Offices, Rod needs help with his debating skills and one liners...
Round One... Judy !
Papa Legba
· 3 years ago
It was a great format. Once JBT got Hot Rod off his script all he could do was keep repeating that all she does is complain. About half way through he was in prime Blago form. Deer-in-the-headlights blank face and idiotic mumblings. Still the same old Rod. All hair and no brains. I ain't buying what he is selling. Bogus proposals and programs that will never fly. That guy only wants a sound bite. Wonder how he liked his sound bites from the debate?
anon
· 3 years ago
Sounded like the good tax payers of Illinois will lose either way
Silas - the assassin opus dei
· 3 years ago
odishoo who?
Captain America
· 3 years ago
The "debate" was entertaining. At best,it was a draw for both candidates. Elvis clearly had more substance. Lucy had better sound bites. However, I found Lucy's repeated comment claiming that Elvis had "the most investigated administration in history" less than credible given the George Ryan legacy. Lucy's harangue will wear thin after awhile. Her primary campaign premise appears to be that people should vote against Elvis rather than vote for Lucy.
B Hicks
· 3 years ago
As usual, when supporters of the governor post comments, they’re campaign staffers. But when Topinka supporters post, they’re just normal everyday folk that are concerned with how the state is going to pay for new programs.
Are you concerned with where Topinka will find the money to restore staffing levels in state agencies? Are you concerned with where Topinka is going to find the money to increase the wages of all state merit-comp employees? Are you concerned with the possibilities of a tax increase or a program services cut that could harm the individual citizen in order to fund education? Is she going to reduce spending that provides services to the poor, the veterans or the elderly? Where could she possibly reduce spending? Unless it’s a plan like the governor presented, the only other choice is between reducing spending and increasing tax revenues.
The governor has put together a plan that does not increase taxes or cut services. She doesn’t have a plan. She doesn’t even have an idea.
Also, she doesn’t have plenty of time to come up with something. She needs to get on the stick.
P.S. I don’t work for the governor. I pay my Union dues each month.
Gregor Samsa
· 3 years ago
Judy took him to school. Blagownwed, indeed.
Even the worst hit Judy took, being questioned on her job growth claims, was easily countered by the fact Milorad was caught by the feds making DCEO LIE about job growth statistics in Illinois; double-and triple-counting jobs, and counting part time burger-flipper jobs as if they were CEO jobs.
I have said it before: Rod is great in small doses, but as soon as he runs out of prepared scripts and slogans, has to think on his feet, he's hopelessly outclassed in true debate. none of the ideas he claims are actually his, he's just taking credit for things his people come up with, and he's eager to blame others when something goes bad on his watch. His credibility gap shpws more and more as he keeps promising more and more with no way to deliver, or with hidden price tags that would queer the deal if the public understood them, like this lottery sale thing and the pension raids/postponements.
The thing I noticed while listening to the entire debate was after each e break, Judy and Doogie were moving on to the next issue, but Rod kept wanting to go back and get a "do-over" on the previous set of arguments, because he lost the initiative and lost on substance.
Finally here's a tip; when Rod goes for his baseball metaphors, the game truly IS over.
To paraphrase redbird; "Swing and a miss for Rod" I predict a sweep for Judy.
JohnR
· 3 years ago
Well, reading the comments so far, it is pretty clear nobody here went into watching that debate objectively.
I almost wonder if you all watched the same debate that I did.
I will remind everyone again:
JUST BECAUSE YOU AGREE WITH SOMEONE DOESN'T MEAN THEY WON THE DEBATE
Nothing new came out during that debate. Rod stuck to his script, Judy stuck to hers. Their supporters got nothing more than hearing their own points of view broadcast on TV. Their opponents still see the Hairdo Governor and Crazy Judy.
Still, I liked the format - and I hope other stations learn from this. It is a lot more interesting when a host can call someone on their BS.
Patrick McDonough
· 3 years ago
I think Rod had a better hair-do. He really looked slick with his comb over that hides his bald spot that makes up for his large overbite, and eyeballs that are to close together. Both candidates had a set of sideburns that angled forward. Judy could do something about that gravel voice, but the hair-do was fine. Judy lit his ass up, but Rod figured out more programs to spend our money. Judy did get the point out about what a scum bum he is. If Judy has the issues down pat she will bury him. Patrick McDonough.
Schiznitz
· 3 years ago
Odishoo for you!!!!!
SilverBackDemocrat
· 3 years ago
I watched the debate online the other tonight. I thought it was really interesting. A funny thing about the debate is that the Governor did very well, at least that was my take. If I hadn't of watched the debate or read the transcripts, I would have thought the Governor did not do good, had I believed the headlines that raced throughout the state and internet. The Governor hit the nail on the head when he said that all the Republicans do is complain, complain, and complain. I think the moderator did a superb job, double Koodos to the moderator. He held both candidates feet to the fire. Ms. Topinka did not offer any details about state initiatives or policies, other than she is not for this and not for that. Like the Governor or not like the Governor, he has initiated a progressive state policy, which I am in favor of. I loved the part of the debate when the Governor pointed out Ms. Topinka's rediculous assertion that millionaires like Donald Trump would be eligible for the All Kids Covered plan. "Donald Trump doesn't qualify for the All Kids Covered plan because he doesn't live in Illinois." What is Ms. Topinka thinking? Does she and her right wing friends really believe that Millionairs would use a program for working folks. Like they, millionaires, cannot afford private health insurance. Give me a break. People need to understand that the only folks who are in need of this Health plan are folks who work and their employers' do not provide health insurance. I think the Governors body language was as good as it could be "genuine and honest." As I listened and watched Ms. Topinka make wild allegation after wild allegation, I couldn't help but laugh along with the Governor. I normally feel embarrassed when I see someone conduct themselves as she did, but for some reason I didn't this time. Probably because I could hear the "hatred" in her voice and felt the contempt from her body language. In closing, I think the Governor did pretty good, and I think Ms. Topinka looked "ok" but could be perceived a prude or "a loose cannon." Ms. Topinka continually interupted the Governor throughout the debate. Talk about scared, after seeing the debate, if there is anyone who needs to be scared, it would be the Republicans. How can anyone say "vote for me" but not have a plan on how to improve education; it appears to me that Ms. Topinka is blowing "smoke" at the people of this state while doing the "polka."
Disgusted
· 3 years ago
Why do people keep touting Blagojevice's "plans?" HE DOESN'T HAVE PLANS, HIS STAFF HAS IDEAS! The ideas rarely come to fruition or if they do, they have no funding. How is that planning?
And, it's not hard to make tough decisions when the outcome doesn't affect you or your family or your income. He doesn't seem to mind throwing any one else under a bus. If he did, he would make an effort to see who's worth keeping and who's not, not just make blanket statements about legislators, teachers, state workers and other politicians as to their way of looking at things.
He is a small-time "C" student who has never gotten his hands dirty with work. If I didn't know any better, I'd think he was related to our Commander in Chief. Maybe Rod is the first Republicrat.
SenorAnon
· 3 years ago
Thing is, she didn't just interject her point often...she kept interrupting. interrupting Blagojevich. Interrupting Kay. Constantly interjecting her insipid little asides and prepared commentary. She was like that guy at the party who keeps interrputing with stupid jokes, and when they aren't acknowledged, they interrupt again. And again. And again. You just wanted to tell her to shut up already.
And she was befuddled when caught in her 100,000 jobs "typo." And again, when asked about her education plan. She had a big fat sack of nothing on that.
Blagojevich wasn't knocking them out of the park, but anyone here suggesing she won definitively, could probably have written their review last month, because they were going to write that no matter what.
in awe
· 3 years ago
Where are all the jbt supporters, travel the state and talk to gop women they will not vote for her and this vote will pu the Gov back in. Com'on she comes across like a mad vindictive barfly it wont sell to rural females in Ill. Sorry guys get some body better next time this jbt boat is sinking fast.
Papa Legba
· 3 years ago
B Hicks:
I am glad you believe that GRod has put together a plan that will work without raising taxes. BTW. What plan are you refering to? All of his previous plans, well the one or two that were implemented, actually did cost the citizens of Illinois. Those programs may have been paid for from money in special funds. Do you know how the money gets into those special funds? From the fees on services you receive when you get an oil change, new tires, garbage collection, and on and on. So you are actually getting hosed twice. When you have to pay the fee and when GRod blows the money. How does that feel?
Can you name two programs from a GRod press release that has been implemented and is helping citizens of Illinois?
All I am aware of is GRod has increased the states bond debt obligations by $20 BILLION give or take a few dollars. Debt that your grandchildren will be paying dearly for.
a friend
· 3 years ago
newsflash...the gov did not increase the state's bond debt by 20 billion. from what I recall that amount includes the 10 billion for the pension bond, but that was swapped with pension debt (you recall the 43 billion debt that was created during three gop admins). if you look at the budget and see what was actually issued, I think the state has sold roughly 8 billion under blago, but most of that is money tied to reappropriations/illinois first projects and not projects tied to the current administration. so, let's stick to the facts. we could all use a reality check from time to time when it comes to the state, no matter which side you may be on.
and, topinka annoyed the heck out of me. I don't know how the gov sat thru that one. can hardly wait for round two.
Criminal Enterprise Called Ill
· 3 years ago
I think Judy did great and she definitely won this debate. Blago looked completely flustered. People may be turned off by Judy's attack dog style...after all, we expect our women to be "sweet", don't we? I hope they aren't and are ready for some straight talk after the baloney spewed by Blago. Still, the indictments, that I also believe will be forthcoming for this administration would do much to put Judy over the top. We can only hope that Fitzgerald and company will save us all from more of this phony baloney. I have never witnessed a politician make so many missteps as this Governor, from the very beginning when he took aim at the Legislature (the drunken sailors). There are so many things Judy could use against him - his lack of job performance and presence in Springfield, his relationship with legislators and the MOU's, failed attempts to sell anything the State owns, the investigations, the agency audits....can anyone actually believe the voters of this State are not sick to death of this flaky Governor?
SilverBackDemocrat
· 3 years ago
From an article I read: Pension funding by Governors, Newspapers have expressed concern about the use of state pension funds. The Associated Press reported the average annual payments and the percentage of general revenues devoted to pensions during the last four gubernatorial terms.
They are: 1992-95 (Edgar), $517 million, or 3.28 percent; 1996-99 (Edgar), $858 million, or 4.3 percent; 2000-03 (Ryan), $1.455 billion or 6.08 percent; and 2004-07 (Blagojevich), $1.874 billion or 7.29 percent.
B Hicks
· 3 years ago
Papa-
Typical GOP response. You criticized and complained about my comment, but you didn’t answer the question, or offer an alternative.
Should she cut services or raise taxes? What would Papa Legba be happy with?
Anonymous
· 3 years ago
The debate format was far more interesting than highly scripted events. Tough questions by the moderator really helped.
With both sides on the offensive already, independents may become thoroughly disgusted and stay home. Seems like national influence and rancor has begun flowing through Illinois to bring out the base on both sides.
It's kind of amusing considering they're both unpopular moderates within their own bases for reducing government involvement in citizen's lives.
The Gov wins on accomplishments and vision, while JBT wins on accountability and open government.
The big question is what would they actually do if elected? Are there serious problems that need fixing?
Merlin
· 3 years ago
The problem that should worry the governor is that JBT did horribly in the debate and still came out with a draw at worst. If she ever studies up on all his proposed programs and corruption investigations and provides specifics he will be taking the 5th right there on the debate stage.
KenoMan
· 3 years ago
I thought the debate was great. However, would someone tell Blagojevich that he ISN'T running against George Ryan, he's running against Topinka. That "bad old Ryan" line is old and tired.
On the other hand, Topinka needs some ideas to counter Blago's line that she has no "new ideas".
Moving to Wisconsin
· 3 years ago
Hey Silverback, those numbers you (and all the other Blago staffers who got the talking points memo a couple weeks ago from the campaign) are bogus.
Blago has not put anywhere near $7.2 billion of GRF into pensions during his term. Recall that FY 04 was 100% borrowed money and FY 06 and 07 include $1 billion haircuts. They (Filan) apparently cipher this "increase" by adding the payments on the pension bonds to the total and calling that a "contribution." Take that out and the percentage really contributed is about the same as Ryan's.
Besides, why should it be a newsflash that Rod put more GRF in pensions (even though he didn't) than Ryan or Edgar? The '95 funding law requires him to do just that with its "ramp-up" provision.
Finally, before anyone starts in on the wonder of those bonds, remember that the pensions are being docked for the full amount of their principal plus interest over the next 30 years.
If JBT lets them get away with all of this nonsense untouched, she deserves to go back to Berwyn.
Papa Legba
· 3 years ago
a friend: Sorry, the State's debt only went from $7 Billion to $20.3 Billion since GRod has been in office. Excuse my error, although it is probably a larger amount by now.
B Hicks: Sorry I didn't answer your question, just as you didn't answer mine. Papa would bite the bullet and raise taxes to keep the state of of bankruptcy, just where it seems to be headed now. It would be better than to keep amassing debt - but then politicians have no guts to do the right and difficult thing.
But if I really had my chance to be happy I would click my heels and make JBT and Blago go away.
BTW. Don't accuse me of being a Republican. I'll make your Mom wash out your mouth with soap.
ironman
· 3 years ago
I think JBT won the debate and she will succeed in november. All of you democrats think she doesn't have a plan, but she does. you will see in november...
WaltDe
· 3 years ago
Keep up the great work on your blog. Best wishes WaltDe
All Comments
This was a case of Rod not being able to use his Reagan-esque debate tactics (though he tried with the "Here she goes again" line) and was cut down by a seriously focused Topinka.
Round 1, Judy Baar on points.
She did well more by virtue of his obvious deficienices than by her own strength. Obama (and I'm not a fan) or Bill Clinton (not a fan of Bill either) would have chewed her up and spit her out. So would Arnie.
I do understand that presenting detailed plans early in the game allows more time for the opp
to tear them to pieces. Hope the campaign staff
doesn't mess up the timing on this, though.
Neither one has impressive debating skills. Rod could not get off his talking points and repeated the same arguments at an increasingly faster pace. Nerves? Pissed? JBT got the points/zingers in that she needed to make her case. She seemed a little more comfortable with a go for the throat attitude. Loved the name calling. They both tended to drift towards personal attacks in that "political" way that SNL used to parody so well. Hope these debates keep going this way with some more substance.
JBT seemed to come out ahead. Judy giving the trophy to Kay at the end for a great run with his show while Rod just sat there with nothing was the capper.
Blagojevich has realized that he has to deal with a female candidate, and that he is the guy who gets beaten up this time. So, considering how much moolah he has, it is too bad no one seemed to prepare him for her onslaught. All candidates realize eventually that running as an opponent is easier than running for reelection, and this fact just dawned on Blagojevich.
Did he really think he could just accuse her of being against everything and we'd listen to that? Who would expect a challenger at this point to present alternatives at this point of a campaign, when it is their job right now to attack? Topinka has too much to choose from when it comes to attack weapons against Blagojevich.
What Topinka did very well accidentially was address Kay over Blagojevich, making him look inconsequential and weak. When she leaned over Blagojevich and asked Kay if he could believe what they were being told, that moment really nailed the incumbant. She neededs to do more of that when she can.
Topinka's body language showed that she was in command. Blagojevich looked like he wet his pants. He spoke faster and faster and watching him nod his head with her as she denounced him was, I'm sure, not intended, and made him look weak.
As for Blagojevich, he did what got him elected in the first place, rattled off his goodies list and reminded supporters why they voted for him. Did he have a coach? It looks like he didn't!
Blagojevich might discover that his mannerisms worked as a challenger, but as an incumbant, his mannerism come off as weak. He was not in control. I couldn't believe he asked Topinka a question, opening himself up to more credible attacks and allowing her to reinforce her sound bite.
Blagojevich needs to do something he is loathed to do; study up and practice for the next debate. She skinned him alive.
The 100,000 jobs created thing made her look silly.
If you watched it, you witnessed Topinka’s 2006 election. Nothing but criticism and complaints. Public official A, pay to play, investigations is her arsenal. Unfortunately for her, Rod can throw the exact same issues right back at her. He’s right, her hypocrisy is breathtaking!
P.S. If her Ace in the hole is a high level indictment, well, Edwin was counting on an indictment, too. Don’t get your hopes up.
I think the stories used the "At least, I have a name, you're public official A" line, Which I am sure you agree makes next to no sense.
Joe Cari could the king of the Dem. party, but he was quoting Stu Levine who was allegedly quoting someone else. And he was trying to keep his butt out of the slammer.
I know that makes senese to all you deep thinkers out there, but just outside the Blogville is a place called Illinois. Voters still favor GRod over the AccordiOnGal.
Oh yeah and then there was that little "typo" about job creation. I can relate to typos, but it is hard for someone who wants us to believe she is the Sayer of All Things True when she bungles those numbers.
Anyone been invited to the education brainstorming session yet?
The debate presented a narrative that will carry this entire campaign.
Judy: You're a crook spending money we don't have.
Rod: I'm far less of a crook than your bestest buddy George Ryan.
JBT: Yes, but you're still a crook.
Rod: Well at least I've demonstrated leadership in education and a vision for Illinois.
JBT: Yes, but how are you going to pay for it?
JBT got off a great line with the "I've still got a name but you're Public Official A" bit. The media loved it, but I wonder whether anyone but insiders understands the reference. I mean how many people outside of CapFax readers really read the Cari plea agreement.
As for Rod, he did a really good job of changing the subject to his agenda and leadership in education and an even better job of demonstrating that after 20+ years of public service, Judy has no vision and nothing to run on other than to get elected. It was very effective and picked up by pretty much every columnist and pundit.
Rod's best line came after she said she'd be releasing her education plan later this summer. He basically said "wait a minute, you've been a state rep, state senator and treasurer for 20+ years and you still don't know what you'd like to do about education!? Then why in the world are you running?"
Oh, and lawman, Cari didn't claim Rod was orchestrating anything. What he said is that Levine told him that Rod a/k/a Public Official A was involved. That is double hearsay and the conman is Stu Levine.
Also, this was a part of the Google Blog listing on this site yesterday. Is this satire or might this be for real?
http://www.ill-noise.com/2006/05/blogojevich.html
Both scored points with the "you are George Ryan" concept, however, Topinka wins on this because her contracts are open bid while Blago has simply sold the state.
Round 1: Topinka
Ashur Odishoo
Candidate
State Representative 11th District
It is easy to sit back and cast brickbats and criticisms to impress the fans, as Ms. Topinka did. That is what politicians and nay-sayers do.
It is not easy to solve problems and make hard and responsible decisions when faced with a deficit inherited from a previous administration, as the governor has done. But that is what leaders do.
I like Topinka's "Fabian strategy." To bring out a plan now would only create fodder for the Blago campaign, which is desperately trying to shift the focus off of him. She's keeping her distance, calmly watching Rod's campaign drown in a cesspool of his own making. She has plenty of time to make her moves.
What’s a girl to do?
Round One... Judy !
Elvis clearly had more substance. Lucy had better sound bites.
However, I found Lucy's repeated comment claiming that Elvis had "the most investigated administration in history" less than credible given the George Ryan legacy.
Lucy's harangue will wear thin after awhile. Her primary campaign premise appears to be that people should vote against Elvis rather than vote for Lucy.
Are you concerned with where Topinka will find the money to restore staffing levels in state agencies? Are you concerned with where Topinka is going to find the money to increase the wages of all state merit-comp employees? Are you concerned with the possibilities of a tax increase or a program services cut that could harm the individual citizen in order to fund education? Is she going to reduce spending that provides services to the poor, the veterans or the elderly? Where could she possibly reduce spending? Unless it’s a plan like the governor presented, the only other choice is between reducing spending and increasing tax revenues.
The governor has put together a plan that does not increase taxes or cut services. She doesn’t have a plan. She doesn’t even have an idea.
Also, she doesn’t have plenty of time to come up with something. She needs to get on the stick.
P.S. I don’t work for the governor. I pay my Union dues each month.
Even the worst hit Judy took, being questioned on her job growth claims, was easily countered by the fact Milorad was caught by the feds making DCEO LIE about job growth statistics in Illinois; double-and triple-counting jobs, and counting part time burger-flipper jobs as if they were CEO jobs.
I have said it before: Rod is great in small doses, but as soon as he runs out of prepared scripts and slogans, has to think on his feet, he's hopelessly outclassed in true debate. none of the ideas he claims are actually his, he's just taking credit for things his people come up with, and he's eager to blame others when something goes bad on his watch. His credibility gap shpws more and more as he keeps promising more and more with no way to deliver, or with hidden price tags that would queer the deal if the public understood them, like this lottery sale thing and the pension raids/postponements.
The thing I noticed while listening to the entire debate was after each e break, Judy and Doogie were moving on to the next issue, but Rod kept wanting to go back and get a "do-over" on the previous set of arguments, because he lost the initiative and lost on substance.
Finally here's a tip; when Rod goes for his baseball metaphors, the game truly IS over.
To paraphrase redbird; "Swing and a miss for Rod"
I predict a sweep for Judy.
I almost wonder if you all watched the same debate that I did.
I will remind everyone again:
JUST BECAUSE YOU AGREE WITH SOMEONE DOESN'T MEAN THEY WON THE DEBATE
Nothing new came out during that debate. Rod stuck to his script, Judy stuck to hers. Their supporters got nothing more than hearing their own points of view broadcast on TV. Their opponents still see the Hairdo Governor and Crazy Judy.
Still, I liked the format - and I hope other stations learn from this. It is a lot more interesting when a host can call someone on their BS.
And, it's not hard to make tough decisions when the outcome doesn't affect you or your family or your income. He doesn't seem to mind throwing any one else under a bus. If he did, he would make an effort to see who's worth keeping and who's not, not just make blanket statements about legislators, teachers, state workers and other politicians as to their way of looking at things.
He is a small-time "C" student who has never gotten his hands dirty with work. If I didn't know any better, I'd think he was related to our Commander in Chief. Maybe Rod is the first Republicrat.
And she was befuddled when caught in her 100,000 jobs "typo." And again, when asked about her education plan. She had a big fat sack of nothing on that.
Blagojevich wasn't knocking them out of the park, but anyone here suggesing she won definitively, could probably have written their review last month, because they were going to write that no matter what.
I am glad you believe that GRod has put together a plan that will work without raising taxes. BTW. What plan are you refering to? All of his previous plans, well the one or two that were implemented, actually did cost the citizens of Illinois. Those programs may have been paid for from money in special funds. Do you know how the money gets into those special funds? From the fees on services you receive when you get an oil change, new tires, garbage collection, and on and on. So you are actually getting hosed twice. When you have to pay the fee and when GRod blows the money. How does that feel?
Can you name two programs from a GRod press release that has been implemented and is helping citizens of Illinois?
All I am aware of is GRod has increased the states bond debt obligations by $20 BILLION give or take a few dollars. Debt that your grandchildren will be paying dearly for.
and, topinka annoyed the heck out of me. I don't know how the gov sat thru that one. can hardly wait for round two.
They are: 1992-95 (Edgar), $517 million, or 3.28 percent; 1996-99 (Edgar), $858 million, or 4.3 percent; 2000-03 (Ryan), $1.455 billion or 6.08 percent; and 2004-07 (Blagojevich), $1.874 billion or 7.29 percent.
Typical GOP response. You criticized and complained about my comment, but you didn’t answer the question, or offer an alternative.
Should she cut services or raise taxes? What would Papa Legba be happy with?
With both sides on the offensive already, independents may become thoroughly disgusted and stay home. Seems like national influence and rancor has begun flowing through Illinois to bring out the base on both sides.
It's kind of amusing considering they're both unpopular moderates within their own bases for reducing government involvement in citizen's lives.
The Gov wins on accomplishments and vision, while JBT wins on accountability and open government.
The big question is what would they actually do if elected? Are there serious problems that need fixing?
On the other hand, Topinka needs some ideas to counter Blago's line that she has no "new ideas".
Blago has not put anywhere near $7.2 billion of GRF into pensions during his term. Recall that FY 04 was 100% borrowed money and FY 06 and 07 include $1 billion haircuts. They (Filan) apparently cipher this "increase" by adding the payments on the pension bonds to the total and calling that a "contribution." Take that out and the percentage really contributed is about the same as Ryan's.
Besides, why should it be a newsflash that Rod put more GRF in pensions (even though he didn't) than Ryan or Edgar? The '95 funding law requires him to do just that with its "ramp-up" provision.
Finally, before anyone starts in on the wonder of those bonds, remember that the pensions are being docked for the full amount of their principal plus interest over the next 30 years.
If JBT lets them get away with all of this nonsense untouched, she deserves to go back to Berwyn.
B Hicks: Sorry I didn't answer your question, just as you didn't answer mine. Papa would bite the bullet and raise taxes to keep the state of of bankruptcy, just where it seems to be headed now. It would be better than to keep amassing debt - but then politicians have no guts to do the right and difficult thing.
But if I really had my chance to be happy I would click my heels and make JBT and Blago go away.
BTW. Don't accuse me of being a Republican. I'll make your Mom wash out your mouth with soap.