It is difficult to imagine how a person in a normal state of mind can talk about raising more money for lawyer fees as a Senator, and a few sentences later mention their Presidential chances in 2016.
Not clinically ill, but in aggressive deep denial.
Commonsense in Illinois
· 1 year ago
I believe he is...There was a press report quoting the attorney that represented the Governor and John Harris in federal court last Tuesday afternoon. He's quoted as saying that Blagojevich seemed to be taking some measure of pleasure in being the center of attention. Sorry, but that isn't the response someone in charge of their emotions would have upon arrest and appearing before a federal judge on corruption charges.
Observer
· 1 year ago
I think all politicians have something in them that causes them to focus only on the positive and ignore the negative, but Blagojevich seems to have that quality to a hyper-extent. He is in such denial that one has to question whether he is in control of his faculties.
Bill Baar
· 1 year ago
He's as sane as Bill Clinton. And I mean that seriously.
As sane as any of use addicted to the story.
stones
· 1 year ago
Speaking as someone who has been close to politicians over the years, I can tell you that much of this type of behavior is a result of being surrounded by "yes men" who do nothing but tell you how great you are every day. It is similar to the professional athlete who travels with a posse that serves no purpose than to stroke the ego of their boss.
If you don't have someone (that you listen to) who can tell you the bad stuff once in a while it is difficult to remain grounded.
I have seen it time and time again. And it doesn't matter which party you belong to.
Levois
· 1 year ago
I would believe that he has some type of diagnosable condition, but I'm not willing to say he's suffering from any mental illness. If nothing else he may just have a personality flaw a very serious one. The next question is how it ever developed.
One of the 35
· 1 year ago
The man believes that he was dealt a "special priviledge card" in life which he interprets to mean that he does not have to live according to the rules that apply to all others. Is that the definition of a sociopath? Ask the mental health professionals.
Anon
· 1 year ago
I think the Governor is definitely not playing with a full deck of cards. It sounds like he has some sort of personality disorder.
Stinky
· 1 year ago
I don't think he is insane. I think he just loves to hear his name all over the media. The more his name is being use the more money he is getting.
ChiGal
· 1 year ago
Ditto, One of the 35. You hit the nail on the head.
Chicago Cynic
· 1 year ago
When Chicago magazine reported last year a quote from someone who said Rod was a sociopath, I thought it was over the top hyperbole. In retrospect, I think it was right on the mark.
Random House defines a sociopath as "a person, as a psychopathic personality, whose behavior is antisocial and who lacks a sense of moral responsibility or social conscience. Can anyone who has watched Rod's performance deny that is accurate?
Inherent in a sociopath's disorder in the inability to distinguish between right and wrong. Based on recent evidence, again that seems dead on.
OneMan
· 1 year ago
Yes he is 'sane', rational not so much but he is sane.
VanillaMan
· 1 year ago
No he is not.
He is a charismatic person who was given a rare opportunity to demonstrate his place in Illinois history by reforming Illinois, restoring citizen confidence after George Ryan, ending 30 years of GOP rule in the executive office, bringing Democrats into office, discovering new avenues of revenue, and working hard for Illinois citizens.
What we discovered shouldn't have come as a surprise. He is not a product of a political organization prized for excellence. He was not a hard working congressman. He married into his political career, not earned it. He had no record of accomplishments.
He is not crazy. He is just a guy too stupid to believe in hard work and opportunities, who believed that his personal charisma was capable of an effortless climb into the Oval Office. He got to be a state representative without earning it. He got to be a US congressman without earning it. He got to be an Illinois governor without earning it. So naturally he believed he found a golden key to the top. To have made it to the Illinois governor's office - twice, shows that he wasn't crazy at all.
Patriot
· 1 year ago
Yes, I believe he is insane to the point that even after the impeachment takes place, he will need to be physically removed from office. The confused voters of Illinois really did it this time by electing this clown TWICE!
Mind of Mens Rea
· 1 year ago
Saying he is mentally ill is a dismissive copout. We want to have an explanation for his behavior, because it doesn't make sense to us.
There is plenty of evidence in the complaint that he knew what he was doing was wrong, or that his conduct needed to be hid.
That's not mental illness, that's criminal intent.
Heartless Libertarian
· 1 year ago
I have been saying for years that the man is a sociopath. I actually had a conversation with a psychology professor, and he said there are symptoms of mental illness. I just wonder what it's like to not feel shame. You see people who resign after they are found out, but Rod says that he has done nothing wrong. I just want to know if he has mental problems or not. He needs to see a psychologist to determine if he is fit to run the state.
And I Approved This Message
· 1 year ago
I think he definitely has some sort of diagnosable personality disorder. Add to that his franntic race to raise money before the end of the month because of possibly serious financial problems. And a sense that the walls were closing in. Not a recipe for stability.
Paul
· 1 year ago
Great question Rich. SNL sort of asked that question.
I don't believe he is mentally ill or clinically dysfunctional, but I do think he is (and has long been) in denial about the realities of his situation. Mostly that is due to being surrounded by people who never stand up to him and inflate his ego.
He makes rationalizations for everything, but apparently he knew his number was up because he was talking about resigning and about being indicted on those tapes. Everything from Tuesday forward is based on some form of defense strategy, or a strategy to keep collecting a paycheck as long as possible.
By signing bills and showing up to work, he's giving his staff something to do besides polish their resumes. In conclusion, I think he's an egomaniac to the 10th degree, but he's not crazy, he's not that smart but he's a little bit smart.
A pervasive pattern of grandiosity (in fantasy or behavior), need for admiration, and lack of empathy, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or more) of the following:
(1) has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements)
(2) is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love
(3) believes that he or she is "special" and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions)
(4) requires excessive admiration
(5) has a sense of entitlement, i.e., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations
(6) is interpersonally exploitative, i.e., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends
(7) lacks empathy: is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others
(8) is often envious of others or believes that others are envious of him or her
(9) shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes
I agree that he knew what he was doing was illegal. I'm not sure he recognized what he was doing was "wrong" in a moral or ethical sense. That's where I think the distinction is.
Skeeter
· 1 year ago
People who are actually mentally ill don't understand that what they are saying sounds strange or illegal. I've represented people who are actually mentally ill. When they tell you that the traffic in a small town is part of a conspiracy against them, they don't have a clue that they sound insane. From what I've seen of Blago, he seems to realize that selling a senate seat is a morally and/or legally questionable act, as was his efforts to remove the Trib editors. He took some efforts to distance himself from the conduct. He sounds sane to me. Morally reprehensible, but still sane.
RMW Stanfford
· 1 year ago
I dont think that the Governor is insane of mentally ill I would say that he is clearly seems to be a sociopath
Bill
· 1 year ago
The Governor is neither insane nor a common criminal. He is, however, an utter failure. He had an opportunity to be one of the greatest governors in Illinois history. He blew it. He may be somewhat delusional at this point about his future. He is a tragic figure.
Mind of Mens Rea
· 1 year ago
Chicago Cynic- That's an important distinction, but differing ethics or morals from our own does not equal mental illness.
I think all of this 'armchair psychiatrist' stuff, referring to DSM-IV entries, definitions for personality disorders, or 'what some psych prof said sociopaths do' gives him a pass he doesn't deserve.
Rich O
· 1 year ago
I agree with Levois on this one. I think it is safe to believe he has some sort of mental health issue. So do many if not most of our inmates. His mental health issues probably shape his behavior to the extent they influence his personality.
But there is a big leap from that to say he isn't culpable. Insanity defense are rarely used and even rarer still are they successful. It is one thing to think you aren't doing something wrong. It is quite another to believe you can get away with it or to simply never consider that you could get caught or punished. Seems to me the governor falls into the latter category.
Patriot
· 1 year ago
"Saying he is mentally ill is a dismissive copout. We want to have an explanation for his behavior, because it doesn’t make sense to us."
What exactly do you need to understand? Blago is not fit for his duties whether he is insane or not. He has been a menace to Illinois from the time he took office and God willing, we will be liberated from him very soon.
He Makes Ryan Look Like a Sain
· 1 year ago
No, he suffers from Arrogance, in the fact he thinks he is untouchable. The favorite line by many of the Staffers is "It's a matter of interpritation" Meaning if they interprit it to be legal, then they feel it is legal, even though it is not.
Skeeter
· 1 year ago
I like Bill's comment for a QOTD. That being said, I don't agree that Blago is a tragic figure. According to the affidavit, he viewed this as a way to make money before he was even elected gov. He didn't intend to do good and then got twisted to the bad. It looks like he never had any thought of being "good."
Little Egypt
· 1 year ago
I think he's mean-spirited, he's in denial, he's a pathological liar, he's a wheeler/dealer, he's devisive, delusional, manipulative, vindictive, scheming, avenging, resentful, uncharitable, unforgiving, catty, cruel, spiteful, hateful, malevolent, malicious, nasty, sadistic, AND vicious ----- but NO he's not nuts. He's as sane as all of the other politicians
Irish
· 1 year ago
I totally agree with Bill Baar and love his example. The Gov's biggest affliction is playing to the public's ability to forgive and forget actions taken by politicians, movie stars, and professional sports' figures. The Clinton's are prime examples. Bill and Hillary lied to the public, lied under oath, walked out of the White House with objects that did not belong to them but belonged to the taxpayers of this nation, lied about their experiances, ie the landing in Bosnia under fire, etc. In other words they were public liars, thiefs, and had very questionable participation in the Whitewater Scandal. Their financial and contacts revelations were redacted to the point of almost only containing just prepositions. Yet, they were revered to the point of being major players in the last election. My biggest disappointment with the President elect is that he allowed Hillary to becom part of his cabinet. We see the same thing with sport's figures who commit crimes the common folk would be jailed for and they walk away with a slap on the wrist. Blagojevich and many others in power believe they will not be called on the carpet for their actions. Therefore they conduct themselves in a manner that shocks us in the present but we, as voters and taxpayers do not stay shocked long enough to bring them to task. As many have said, we are part of the problem. WE have to stop allowing special standards for our leaders and idols and apply the same standard as we would to Joe the Plumber.
IrishPirate
· 1 year ago
I've never understood how this bozo was considered "personable". He never struck me as having any charisma.
He's always struck me as almost being a high functioning "autistic" with narcissistic tendencies and a bad moon rising.
This is a guy who had no business being in public office. Many politicians by nature are going to be egomaniacs, but this guy takes it to a whole new level unseen outside the Bush family.
Captain Flume
· 1 year ago
I think Bill's assessment is valid. And he uses "tragic" in the classic sense, also valid, i.e., a great person with potential brought down by his/her own flaws. The Governor really coulda been a contender, a real champion. But his inability to see beyond his own ambition brings him to where he is today. He defines blind ambition.
Gabriel
· 1 year ago
The made men of the underworld show up to court in wheelchairs.
The made men of the upperworld show up to court with all smiles and good health.
He's sitting atop of the biggest pile of dirt. Why wouldn't he be pleased with this position?
He's lazy, not crazy.
Susan L
· 1 year ago
From a legal standpoint of knowing right from wrong, he is not insane.
From the large number of people who face mental illness every day (from mild depression to the more serious illnesses) I hate to think that this discussion contributes to any stigma they may perceive exists out there, but yes, I think he is mentally ill.
Obviously, without being a trained clinician who has professionally evaluated him, but with some familiarity with others who have been diagnosed and the DSM-IV, he would appear to be a textbook Narcissistic Personality with sociopathic elements. The suffering of his wife, or children, or the ramifications of those in his office, by dragging this post-affadavit response out, appear to be of little concern to him. His feelings appear to be the only concern. Suffering delusions - some elements of phychotic here - after years of federal investigations he felt that he could still run for President, could still obtain favors and money, would not suspect a wiretap, and that all evidence to the contrary, he could wrangle a cabinet role for himself, and additional positions for his wife. His current activities seemed divorced from a healthy understanding of reality.
wordslinger
· 1 year ago
He's not mentally ill. He's a hustler from the neighborhood and not very smart.
I know lots of guys like him; but he's the only one who's narcissism was fed by getting elected governor twice.
He should have been a salesman of some sort. Good at insincere small talk, likes to wear a suit and tie, no intellectual heavy lifting. Just a shoeshine and a smile.
The problem is that, through no real effort on his part (thank you, Ald. Mell) he kept getting pushed up the ladder. He started believing the hype.
The GA, Congress, fine. Perfect for him. You can't really do too much damage.
But governor was a bridge too far for his competence, intelligence, and ethics.
He's been hustling all his life. He thought, and still thinks, that a few smiles, some choice words, maybe acting touch, and he's golden. But he's always been in way over his head, and he's going to pay for it.
been there
· 1 year ago
He seems to me to be both culpable and tragic. What we've had in return for our tax dollars over these last many years is seats at the drama. Many of us have even voted to participate.
It's Shakespearean, isn't it?
Ahem
· 1 year ago
The yes men made him do it? I think not. We all have free will; we all need to utilize it. After the president, the governors are the most powerful people in the United States.
I believe Blagojevich has at least one severe personality disorder. Carl Nyberg's question should be answered yes. From what books I've read, sociopathy frequently accompanies narcissism...makes sense, doesn't it? I believe that the public is entitled to protection from people like Blagojevich. However, this is a legal, ethical, and psychological debate that only the best thinkers can tackle.
wordslinger
· 1 year ago
With all due respect to the mental health professionals, and with no snark intended, could someone who displays narcissistic or sociopathic symptoms just be a jerk, and not mentally ill?
Jail house Rod
· 1 year ago
=I can tell you that much of this type of behavior is a result of being surrounded by “yes men†who do nothing but tell you how great you are every day. It is similar to the professional athlete who travels with a posse that serves no purpose than to stroke the ego of their boss.
If you don’t have someone (that you listen to) who can tell you the bad stuff once in a while it is difficult to remain grounded.=
Isn't that what a wives are for? To bring a man back down to earth and tell him he's nothing special. Obama says Michelle grounds him so why isn't Patty doing that?
Louis G. Atsaves
· 1 year ago
Excellent question, Rich.
I've thought about it for a while and tried to give him the benefit of any doubts.
Is he mentally insane or suffering from a mental illness? I don't think so. The complaint clearly shows that he knew at all times what he was doing and there are several references attributable to him of "being careful" or warning others to "be careful" in executing various alleged schemes.
Was he being dumb or just plain stupid about those outlined alleged activities in the complaint? Maybe to a small degree, but clearly the complaint alleges he accelerated his activities knowing a new law would soon be in place which would force different behavior in terms of fundraising.
Was he allegedly trying to "sell" the U.S. Senate seat? News stories in the past few years keep bringing up a magical number of $25,000.00 for appointments to high paying or powerful positions, so that alleged behavior would be consistent with past alleged behavior.
The term that best comes to mind to me in describing him is "venal." "Venal" is described in Black's Law Dictionary as (and I'm paraphrasing the definition here) "pertaining to something that is bought, capable of being bought, offered for sale, mercenary, usually used in an evil sense being regarded as corrupt and illegal."
Being venal sounds like having a criminal mind.
And "venal" seems to match him and his thought process as it pertains to the complaint filed by Fitzgerald. Sorry to everyone for being so blunt, but I just don't see any insanity here so far.
SouthernGirl
· 1 year ago
I agree with the personality disorder diagnosis --people with either antisocial or narcissistic personality disorder would lack empathy and completely disregard social convention. In otherwords, "doin the right thing" is not something they'd understand.
People who are "jerks" usually have a personality disorder, LOL.
Little Egypt
· 1 year ago
Susan L - Ditto for Mrs. B. Neither of them seem to care about what ramifications all of this will have on their children. I just hope both of them grow up before their daughters do.
Irish
· 1 year ago
A further exqmple of what I am talking about is what we are seeing with the current GA. Would one not think that after all of what has been revealed recently and the nationwide shock at what passes for governance in the State of Illinois, that these people would come togwther and get down to business for the good of the State and it's citizens? But that is not what we are seeing. We are seeing business as usual with the partisanship and attacking that has been our government for the last eight years. The Governor is pretty much out of the picture at this point, so what is the excuse now for not getting down to business and doing the job they are being paid for? No, They have still not gotten the message that the citizens of this State are tired of this. Will we all remember this the next time these folks come up for re-election? I doubt it.
IrishPirate
· 1 year ago
No one has mentioned Blago's hair in this thread.
If you want to see the difference between sanity and insanity compare Mike Madigan's barber shop special and the "toupee on top of a toupee" on Blago's head.
I'm convinced that his hair is a indication that he has some type of personality disorder. Not necessarily legally insane, but clearly "off". A guy I grew up with back in the hood used to wear "helmet hair" and he exhibited some narcissistic tendencies also.
Referring to his hairbrush as "the football" and in fact even having a favorite hairbrush should be grounds for questioning his fitness for anything involving responsibility.
Bill Baar
· 1 year ago
I know lots of guys like him; but he’s the only one who’s narcissism was fed by getting elected governor twice. He should have been a salesman of some sort. Good at insincere small talk, likes to wear a suit and tie, no intellectual heavy lifting. Just a shoeshine and a smile.
Wordslinger, you and I must frequent the same circles. I know the Gov's type. They're all over... especially in Politics.
Ghost
· 1 year ago
It is an interesting question. I think it is unfauir to look at the Gov compared to anyman in society. In short elected officials, particuarly the higher the office, appear to be drawn to the position in the first place by an uncommon desire for the authority (power) of the position. I am reminded of the words of Lord Acton: "Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men."
Can we identify powerful leaders who were completly free of corruption? Perhaps the shameful truth confronting us is that the real question is not whether the Gov suffered from mental illness, but only that this Gov lacked the acuity to covertly carry out his schemes.
Put another way, is it possible to have leaders who are 100% free of corruption, or are we instead really just hoping for leaders smart enough to hide what they are doing so that we do not have to have light shed upon the inherent problem of giving power to others.
Jechislo
· 1 year ago
I think he is delusional. I don't mean that as as an off-the-wall comment; I mean delusional as defined in the dictionary: "a: something that is falsely or delusively believed or propagated b: a persistent false psychotic belief regarding the self or persons or objects outside the self that is maintained despite indisputable evidence to the contrary".
I am convinced Rod actually believes he did nothing wrong; committed no crime; is totally innocent. He is delusional - which, in my opinion, means he suffers from a mental illness.
He does NOT belong in the Governor's office any longer. If he won't resign, he must be impeached. Illinois can not stand any more of this.
Fan of the Game
· 1 year ago
Sane? Yes.
Mental condition? Probably.
Does it affect his knowledge of right and wrong? No.
Can he function as governor despite it? Yes, but not very well. Also, his condition is likely no worse than the conditions, addictions, obsessions that afflict a great many other politicans.
Joshua
· 1 year ago
I think Governor Blagojevich suffers from hypomania, which is sort of a type of bipolar disorder. Here are the symptoms I pulled off a website discussing mental health symptoms (note: I added a little bit in parenthesis to the explanation below).
1. Euphoria with irritability. A person with hypomania will probably feel extremely “high,†exhilarated, or happy. Even so, they will probably also be very irritable if you suggest that an idea they have is irrational or unwise.
2. Decreased sleep. The patient will be too interested in activities to sleep. They may sleep very little for several days and yet show no sign of fatigue.
3. Rapid speech that seems pressured. The person may seem to want to discuss an issue, but is unable to stop talking long enough to let the other person make a comment, and they may be unable to consider the other person’s ideas, anyway. Speech is often loud and emphatic. (Incoherent speech would indicate a more severe level of mania.)
4. Appetite is lacking. They may quit eating for several days.
5. Restlessness. They may attempt to relax but be too antsy to sit still.
6. Distractibility. Racing and disjointed thoughts. Jumping from idea to idea. When these thoughts become too fast for the person to keep up with, and thus confusing instead of pleasant, it marks the beginning of mania.
7. Grandiose thinking. They may feel as if they are very important in some way. For example, they may think that God has given them an important revelation that the entire world needs to find out about. Or they may have larger-than-life feelings about their own power or knowledge, or be uncharacteristically boastful or pretentious. A person with talent in music or art, for example, may feel as if they are extremely talented.
8. Financial extravagance. They may gamble big, write hot checks, or make unwise large purchases.
9. Inappropriate humor or behaviors, including an increase in sexual interest, or aggressive actions. A person who is normally reserved or shy may be loud, unreserved, and embarrassing to others. There are sometimes religious overtones to this person’s behaviors or ideas.
10. Risk-taking behavior. (Including foolish legal decisions, taking risks with promiscuous sexual activity, and other physical risks, like in the governors case boxing).
11. Becoming intensely interested in previously uninteresting people or things.
12. Uncharacteristic anger or hostility.
13. Mild paranoia is possible.
pmel
· 1 year ago
Reading the federal attorney's affidavit shows that Guv wasn't insane as at least one candidate was willing to play with him. The real question you need to be asking yourself, is, am I insane for continuing to support the leadership and culture of the Illinois Democratic Party. Perhaps, reader, you are not as delusional as is out illustrious governor, but you are certainly on the same road.
This question you ask about the governor's sanity is just a way for you to avoid the question you should ask yourself: Is my party corrupt to its core, are too many of its leaders not putting the public first, do our sponsors get more than just ideological rewards for their investments, is the real reason I don't support a special election because I fear the electorate? I say, end the insanity and give the power back to the people.
ChampaignDweller
· 1 year ago
He's not legally mentally ill, but he clearly suffers from delusions of grandeur--an ambassadorship or a Cabinet position? President in 2016? While trolling for criminal defense dollars?
MikeintheSuburbs
· 1 year ago
I had a conversation with a psychiatrist friend about his yesterday. He said that although Blago may have what is called "Narcissistic Personality Disorder", what that means is that he is just a jerk ("jerk" not the real word used). He specifially said he was not bi-polar, which had been my guess after watching Tom Cruise in the AM.
Patriot
· 1 year ago
- Fan of the Game - Tuesday, Dec 16, 08 @ 12:21 pm:
Sane? Yes.
Mental condition? Probably.
Does it affect his knowledge of right and wrong? No.
Can he function as governor despite it? Yes, but not very well. Also, his condition is likely no worse than the conditions, addictions, obsessions that afflict a great many other politicans.
Sorry, I doubt that he is sane, unless you are basing this upon Chicago standards.
Mental condition? Absolutely
Whether he knows the difference between right or wrong is not relevent. However, it was wrong for the people of Illinois to relect him in the first place.
Can he function as Governor? Please tell me when he has acted like a governor since being elected. If you had a defintion for the Anti-Governor in a dictionary, he would be it. And I cannot possibly compare him to any other politician other than Nixon. Of course, comparing Blago to Nixon is really an insult to history. At least Nixon had a high IQ.
Amy
· 1 year ago
i think what Carl Nyberg said. a personality disorder is not insanity. mental illness is all around us, the question is the degree as to whether it is insanity. depression is everywhere, so many are diagnosed with bipolar disorder, and many politicians are uber self centered. but not insane. these conditions increase with isolation because there is nothing to stop the self centered behavior and staff is automatically seen as beneath the politician.
but if we are talking about mental disorders/illness/insanity, let's all stop and think about two things:
1)health services are more and more necessary for people with these conditions. governments must do more to help.
2) the holidays can be a bummer for anyone who is sad for any reason. help out a pal in need, whether it be for financial or mood reasons.
Stinky
· 1 year ago
I think he is one smart cookie. Listen to us. We are all talking about him and the media is all over him. He loves the attention. He is a child who keeps getting into trouble to get attention. and we all egg him on.
City Voter
· 1 year ago
He's a megalomaniac. n : a delusional mental disorder that is marked by infantile feelings of personal omnipotence and grandeur.
I think "infantile" seals the diagnosis.
Patriot
· 1 year ago
No doubt, being depressed and/or suffering of mental illness should not be spoken of casually. I Just believe if he was examined by professional, it would be determined that he is unfit for the office. If he was playing with a full deck of cards, he would have already stepped aside for the sake of Illinois.
carbon deforestation
· 1 year ago
Will all this attention feel good for his little ego and feed his family in ten years when he's half-way through his sentence and we've all tried to forget him?
BandCamp
· 1 year ago
I'm with Bill. I worked on his primary. I think all of believed he would be "different" from the past...but OMG! Not this kind of different. I don't think he is a common criminal either. He's a Governor who probably surrounded himself with the wrong people. Like Rich said in his piece, he had all those "yes" people who facilitated him.
He's unfit for office because he doesn't know what's he's doing. He couldn't govern a class of 1st graders right now.
I also agree it's tragic. I don't feel sorry for him. His daughters? Yah. But him and Patty, no way. They are both sane enough to stop the behavior at some point over the past few years.
Although I will say this, and argue if you want, I think we all suffer from sort of mental issue. We are not perfect by nature.
Enemy of the State
· 1 year ago
The real question should be, Does he belong in a prison or in a hospital? The answer is both. Check out the state facility at Chester.
Wheel 'n Deal
· 1 year ago
I believe he has the personality disorders as listed above, but really, who cares? He still is a criminal and shows intent to cover up his actions. Many criminals have some sort of mental problem, but are not insane. And if it is a personality disorder, I don't think there is much in the way of effective treatment, so rehabilitation is mute. His wife to ground him? She seems just as un-grounded as he is. They are perfect for each other.
Dznuts
· 1 year ago
The Governor reminds me a lot of the character Lowden Downey from the movie "A Few Good Men". Downey believed in his heart that he did nothing wrong, that he was just following an order. I'm not suggesting Blagojevich was following an order, but the deer-in-the headlights look when confronted with serious charges and court room proceedings still didn't mean anything to Downey in the movie. I don't think Blagojevich suffers from a mental condition. He suffers from an undeserved condition of arrogance. That's not mental incompetence. He made phone calls. He was caught on tape trying to make money on the appointment of a U.S. Senator.
John Gotti also swore he was innocent, but in his world, what he did was considered business as usual. Again, I'm not saying the Governor is a murderer, just that the claim of innocence argument may actually seem to make sense to him on a very twisted leve.
Dznuts
· 1 year ago
...level...
Big Mama T
· 1 year ago
Something is definitely not right with him. He has a few wires that are crossed up in his noggin. I believe he suffers from FAS. He exhibits many of the traits, physically and emotionally.
Lefty
· 1 year ago
As we used to say in Chicago he's gotta be effen nuts to do some of the things he's done.However, that's no excuse.He deserves everything he gets.
Ahem
· 1 year ago
There's insane and there's criminally insane. Let's be clear.
soccermom
· 1 year ago
Here's a literary point I've been thinking about. The essence of tragedy is that the protagonist has no choice; his ultimate disaster is the result of a tragic flaw over which he has no control. In melodrama, on the other hand, the protagonist is not destined for disaster; he makes a conscious choice that leads to his doom.
I guess I believe in free will, so I view this sad tale as a melodrama, not a tragedy.
JonShibleyFan
· 1 year ago
In my opinion, the talk of the Governor's mental state has gotten way out of hand. What started as a flip remark by Steve Brown has turned every self-styled pundit into a psychoanalyst, and at least one psychoanalyst into a pundit (and a hack).
Nonprofessionals are not fit to make that diagnosis. Professionals are not fit to make a diagnosis based on what they see on TV.
It's ludicrous, and saying he's mentally ill either makes light of mental illness, or it lets him off the hook. Neither option is a responsible one.
Hubris is not a mental illness. Egomania is not a mental illness. Greed is not a mental illness. And rank stupidity is not a mental illness. And I think those are diagnoses with which few would disagree.
blahedo
· 1 year ago
I think that one of the things making this difficult is that so many of his symptoms *do* appear at first blush to be just run-of-the-mill politician stuff, if perhaps stronger than most; it's why he got so far. But if you think of the other politicians that have misbehaved in office, whether actually sent to prison or not, it really seems to be qualitatively different. They might lie, they might break promises, they might be greedy (*very* greedy), they might think the law doesn't really apply to them. But Blagojevich has taken these things to a whole different level, with a strange mix of knowing he had to keep it secret but not understanding why they're wrong. It could just be that he's stupid, I guess, and many have claimed that he's just greedypolitician + stupid, but it definitely seems qualitatively different to me. He really does come across as sociopathic in a literal sense. (Which, I suppose, would technically be Antisocial or Narcissistic Personality Disorder or whatever---IANAP.)
Hubba Bubba
· 1 year ago
A terminal case of too-full-of-himself-itis
Justice
· 1 year ago
Sane....absolutely. Idiot.....absolutely....and would be a perfect tyrant! He cares less about the truth, and honesty is what he chooses it to be. He has placed many in positions who are just like him. They become bullies and live by their own rules, which change to meet their needs. Finally someone has stepped up and slammed a barricade in their path; That someone is the Feds. They will pick the hacks off one by one down to the lower levels, into the ranks of the liaisons. Blagojevich will try and squeeze through the eye of the needle to get out of this but will fail magnificently. He enjoys the spotlight but little by little it will dawn upon him that there is a cell waiting. His good days are gone and loneliness and tribulations are now his shadow companions. The glory is waning and contempt is building. He strikes me as a guy who needs to be on a suicide watch.
Ahem
· 1 year ago
Sorry to keep coming back to this but I think there's come confusion on the whole insanity issue. I don't believe he can get off using an insanity plea; I believe his personality disorder(s) are severe enough that one could say that he has a mental pathology. I believe that to the extent that his mental condition could come up in court, it would be in support of a criminal conviction; his tendencies predispose him to the kind of behavior he is accused of.
Sweet Polly Purebred
· 1 year ago
I just think he has "NIXONITIS". He has surrounded himself with YES men who haven't the testicular virility to tell him his ideas are whacked and in doing so has committed himself to terminal isolation. If he HAD made it to the White House, it would have only been a question of time before he was walking the halls at midnight, talking to the portrait of Lincoln. There is nothing wrong with the gov that a good spanking and to bed with no supper wouldn't cure! He is an overindulged child with a super sense of entitlement.
wordslinger
· 1 year ago
Polly, that's not bad. A petulant child with Nixon demons. Not bad at all.
zatoichi
· 1 year ago
The man is not mentally ill in any way. He is a hustler who found a way to make money through BS and a willingness to say almost anything to get the sale. He has no desire to get his hands dirty, but will work off other's coattails. Those statements in the criminal complaint: I got something that was given to me, I did not earn it but what can I get for it. All image, no substance. He will nonchalantly shed any relationship that does bring him something for the little effort he actually puts out. Corporate world is filled with people like him.
Sweet Polly Purebred
· 1 year ago
Wordslinger - If you see this - THANK YOU. I enjoy your postings and look forward to your take on the days events. Keep posting. As I said in an earlier post You, Bill Baar, Little Egypt and others here on Cap Fax really keep my mind hopping and my addiction to politics under control! I would be in a 12 step program by now if it weren't for this glorious creation of RICHS'.
All Comments
Not clinically ill, but in aggressive deep denial.
As sane as any of use addicted to the story.
If you don't have someone (that you listen to) who can tell you the bad stuff once in a while it is difficult to remain grounded.
I have seen it time and time again. And it doesn't matter which party you belong to.
Random House defines a sociopath as "a person, as a psychopathic personality, whose behavior is antisocial and who lacks a sense of moral responsibility or social conscience. Can anyone who has watched Rod's performance deny that is accurate?
Inherent in a sociopath's disorder in the inability to distinguish between right and wrong. Based on recent evidence, again that seems dead on.
He is a charismatic person who was given a rare opportunity to demonstrate his place in Illinois history by reforming Illinois, restoring citizen confidence after George Ryan, ending 30 years of GOP rule in the executive office, bringing Democrats into office, discovering new avenues of revenue, and working hard for Illinois citizens.
What we discovered shouldn't have come as a surprise. He is not a product of a political organization prized for excellence. He was not a hard working congressman. He married into his political career, not earned it. He had no record of accomplishments.
He is not crazy. He is just a guy too stupid to believe in hard work and opportunities, who believed that his personal charisma was capable of an effortless climb into the Oval Office. He got to be a state representative without earning it. He got to be a US congressman without earning it. He got to be an Illinois governor without earning it. So naturally he believed he found a golden key to the top. To have made it to the Illinois governor's office - twice, shows that he wasn't crazy at all.
There is plenty of evidence in the complaint that he knew what he was doing was wrong, or that his conduct needed to be hid.
That's not mental illness, that's criminal intent.
I don't believe he is mentally ill or clinically dysfunctional, but I do think he is (and has long been) in denial about the realities of his situation. Mostly that is due to being surrounded by people who never stand up to him and inflate his ego.
He makes rationalizations for everything, but apparently he knew his number was up because he was talking about resigning and about being indicted on those tapes. Everything from Tuesday forward is based on some form of defense strategy, or a strategy to keep collecting a paycheck as long as possible.
By signing bills and showing up to work, he's giving his staff something to do besides polish their resumes. In conclusion, I think he's an egomaniac to the 10th degree, but he's not crazy, he's not that smart but he's a little bit smart.
Narcissistic Personality Disorder
SYMPTOMS
A pervasive pattern of grandiosity (in fantasy or behavior), need for admiration, and lack of empathy, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or more) of the following:
(1) has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements)
(2) is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love
(3) believes that he or she is "special" and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions)
(4) requires excessive admiration
(5) has a sense of entitlement, i.e., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations
(6) is interpersonally exploitative, i.e., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends
(7) lacks empathy: is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others
(8) is often envious of others or believes that others are envious of him or her
(9) shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes
***
Do these symptoms describe Gov. Blagojevich?
More info on Wikipedia, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_perso...
I agree that he knew what he was doing was illegal. I'm not sure he recognized what he was doing was "wrong" in a moral or ethical sense. That's where I think the distinction is.
From what I've seen of Blago, he seems to realize that selling a senate seat is a morally and/or legally questionable act, as was his efforts to remove the Trib editors. He took some efforts to distance himself from the conduct.
He sounds sane to me. Morally reprehensible, but still sane.
That's an important distinction, but differing ethics or morals from our own does not equal mental illness.
I think all of this 'armchair psychiatrist' stuff, referring to DSM-IV entries, definitions for personality disorders, or 'what some psych prof said sociopaths do' gives him a pass he doesn't deserve.
But there is a big leap from that to say he isn't culpable. Insanity defense are rarely used and even rarer still are they successful. It is one thing to think you aren't doing something wrong. It is quite another to believe you can get away with it or to simply never consider that you could get caught or punished. Seems to me the governor falls into the latter category.
What exactly do you need to understand? Blago is not fit for his duties whether he is insane or not. He has been a menace to Illinois from the time he took office and God willing, we will be liberated from him very soon.
The Gov's biggest affliction is playing to the public's ability to forgive and forget actions taken by politicians, movie stars, and professional sports' figures. The Clinton's are prime examples. Bill and Hillary lied to the public, lied under oath, walked out of the White House with objects that did not belong to them but belonged to the taxpayers of this nation, lied about their experiances, ie the landing in Bosnia under fire, etc. In other words they were public liars, thiefs, and had very questionable participation in the Whitewater Scandal. Their financial and contacts revelations were redacted to the point of almost only containing just prepositions. Yet, they were revered to the point of being major players in the last election. My biggest disappointment with the President elect is that he allowed Hillary to becom part of his cabinet. We see the same thing with sport's figures who commit crimes the common folk would be jailed for and they walk away with a slap on the wrist. Blagojevich and many others in power believe they will not be called on the carpet for their actions. Therefore they conduct themselves in a manner that shocks us in the present but we, as voters and taxpayers do not stay shocked long enough to bring them to task. As many have said, we are part of the problem. WE have to stop allowing special standards for our leaders and idols and apply the same standard as we would to Joe the Plumber.
He's always struck me as almost being a high functioning "autistic" with narcissistic tendencies and a bad moon rising.
This is a guy who had no business being in public office. Many politicians by nature are going to be egomaniacs, but this guy takes it to a whole new level unseen outside the Bush family.
The made men of the upperworld show up to court with all smiles and good health.
He's sitting atop of the biggest pile of dirt. Why wouldn't he be pleased with this position?
He's lazy, not crazy.
From the large number of people who face mental illness every day (from mild depression to the more serious illnesses) I hate to think that this discussion contributes to any stigma they may perceive exists out there, but yes, I think he is mentally ill.
Obviously, without being a trained clinician who has professionally evaluated him, but with some familiarity with others who have been diagnosed and the DSM-IV, he would appear to be a textbook Narcissistic Personality with sociopathic elements. The suffering of his wife, or children, or the ramifications of those in his office, by dragging this post-affadavit response out, appear to be of little concern to him. His feelings appear to be the only concern. Suffering delusions - some elements of phychotic here - after years of federal investigations he felt that he could still run for President, could still obtain favors and money, would not suspect a wiretap, and that all evidence to the contrary, he could wrangle a cabinet role for himself, and additional positions for his wife.
His current activities seemed divorced from a healthy understanding of reality.
I know lots of guys like him; but he's the only one who's narcissism was fed by getting elected governor twice.
He should have been a salesman of some sort. Good at insincere small talk, likes to wear a suit and tie, no intellectual heavy lifting. Just a shoeshine and a smile.
The problem is that, through no real effort on his part (thank you, Ald. Mell) he kept getting pushed up the ladder. He started believing the hype.
The GA, Congress, fine. Perfect for him. You can't really do too much damage.
But governor was a bridge too far for his competence, intelligence, and ethics.
He's been hustling all his life. He thought, and still thinks, that a few smiles, some choice words, maybe acting touch, and he's golden. But he's always been in way over his head, and he's going to pay for it.
It's Shakespearean, isn't it?
I believe Blagojevich has at least one severe personality disorder. Carl Nyberg's question should be answered yes. From what books I've read, sociopathy frequently accompanies narcissism...makes sense, doesn't it? I believe that the public is entitled to protection from people like Blagojevich. However, this is a legal, ethical, and psychological debate that only the best thinkers can tackle.
If you don’t have someone (that you listen to) who can tell you the bad stuff once in a while it is difficult to remain grounded.=
Isn't that what a wives are for? To bring a man back down to earth and tell him he's nothing special. Obama says Michelle grounds him so why isn't Patty doing that?
I've thought about it for a while and tried to give him the benefit of any doubts.
Is he mentally insane or suffering from a mental illness? I don't think so. The complaint clearly shows that he knew at all times what he was doing and there are several references attributable to him of "being careful" or warning others to "be careful" in executing various alleged schemes.
Was he being dumb or just plain stupid about those outlined alleged activities in the complaint? Maybe to a small degree, but clearly the complaint alleges he accelerated his activities knowing a new law would soon be in place which would force different behavior in terms of fundraising.
Was he allegedly trying to "sell" the U.S. Senate seat? News stories in the past few years keep bringing up a magical number of $25,000.00 for appointments to high paying or powerful positions, so that alleged behavior would be consistent with past alleged behavior.
The term that best comes to mind to me in describing him is "venal." "Venal" is described in Black's Law Dictionary as (and I'm paraphrasing the definition here) "pertaining to something that is bought, capable of being bought, offered for sale, mercenary, usually used in an evil sense being regarded as corrupt and illegal."
Being venal sounds like having a criminal mind.
And "venal" seems to match him and his thought process as it pertains to the complaint filed by Fitzgerald.
Sorry to everyone for being so blunt, but I just don't see any insanity here so far.
People who are "jerks" usually have a personality disorder, LOL.
If you want to see the difference between sanity and insanity compare Mike Madigan's barber shop special and the "toupee on top of a toupee" on Blago's head.
I'm convinced that his hair is a indication that he has some type of personality disorder. Not necessarily legally insane, but clearly "off". A guy I grew up with back in the hood used to wear "helmet hair" and he exhibited some narcissistic tendencies also.
Referring to his hairbrush as "the football" and in fact even having a favorite hairbrush should be grounds for questioning his fitness for anything involving responsibility.
He should have been a salesman of some sort. Good at insincere small talk, likes to wear a suit and tie, no intellectual heavy lifting. Just a shoeshine and a smile.
Wordslinger, you and I must frequent the same circles. I know the Gov's type. They're all over... especially in Politics.
Can we identify powerful leaders who were completly free of corruption? Perhaps the shameful truth confronting us is that the real question is not whether the Gov suffered from mental illness, but only that this Gov lacked the acuity to covertly carry out his schemes.
Put another way, is it possible to have leaders who are 100% free of corruption, or are we instead really just hoping for leaders smart enough to hide what they are doing so that we do not have to have light shed upon the inherent problem of giving power to others.
I am convinced Rod actually believes he did nothing wrong; committed no crime; is totally innocent. He is delusional - which, in my opinion, means he suffers from a mental illness.
He does NOT belong in the Governor's office any longer. If he won't resign, he must be impeached. Illinois can not stand any more of this.
Mental condition? Probably.
Does it affect his knowledge of right and wrong? No.
Can he function as governor despite it? Yes, but not very well. Also, his condition is likely no worse than the conditions, addictions, obsessions that afflict a great many other politicans.
1. Euphoria with irritability. A person with hypomania will probably feel extremely “high,†exhilarated, or happy. Even so, they will probably also be very irritable if you suggest that an idea they have is irrational or unwise.
2. Decreased sleep. The patient will be too interested in activities to sleep. They may sleep very little for several days and yet show no sign of fatigue.
3. Rapid speech that seems pressured. The person may seem to want to discuss an issue, but is unable to stop talking long enough to let the other person make a comment, and they may be unable to consider the other person’s ideas, anyway. Speech is often loud and emphatic. (Incoherent speech would indicate a more severe level of mania.)
4. Appetite is lacking. They may quit eating for several days.
5. Restlessness. They may attempt to relax but be too antsy to sit still.
6. Distractibility. Racing and disjointed thoughts. Jumping from idea to idea. When these thoughts become too fast for the person to keep up with, and thus confusing instead of pleasant, it marks the beginning of mania.
7. Grandiose thinking. They may feel as if they are very important in some way. For example, they may think that God has given them an important revelation that the entire world needs to find out about. Or they may have larger-than-life feelings about their own power or knowledge, or be uncharacteristically boastful or pretentious. A person with talent in music or art, for example, may feel as if they are extremely talented.
8. Financial extravagance. They may gamble big, write hot checks, or make unwise large purchases.
9. Inappropriate humor or behaviors, including an increase in sexual interest, or aggressive actions. A person who is normally reserved or shy may be loud, unreserved, and embarrassing to others. There are sometimes religious overtones to this person’s behaviors or ideas.
10. Risk-taking behavior. (Including foolish legal decisions, taking risks with promiscuous sexual activity, and other physical risks, like in the governors case boxing).
11. Becoming intensely interested in previously uninteresting people or things.
12. Uncharacteristic anger or hostility.
13. Mild paranoia is possible.
This question you ask about the governor's sanity is just a way for you to avoid the question you should ask yourself: Is my party corrupt to its core, are too many of its leaders not putting the public first, do our sponsors get more than just ideological rewards for their investments, is the real reason I don't support a special election because I fear the electorate? I say, end the insanity and give the power back to the people.
Sane? Yes.
Mental condition? Probably.
Does it affect his knowledge of right and wrong? No.
Can he function as governor despite it? Yes, but not very well. Also, his condition is likely no worse than the conditions, addictions, obsessions that afflict a great many other politicans.
Sorry, I doubt that he is sane, unless you are basing this upon Chicago standards.
Mental condition? Absolutely
Whether he knows the difference between right or wrong is not relevent. However, it was wrong for the people of Illinois to relect him in the first place.
Can he function as Governor? Please tell me when he has acted like a governor since being elected. If you had a defintion for the Anti-Governor in a dictionary, he would be it. And I cannot possibly compare him to any other politician other than Nixon. Of course, comparing Blago to Nixon is really an insult to history. At least Nixon had a high IQ.
but if we are talking about mental disorders/illness/insanity, let's all stop and think about two things:
1)health services are more and more necessary for people with these conditions. governments must do more to help.
2) the holidays can be a bummer for anyone who is sad for any reason. help out a pal in need, whether it be for financial or mood reasons.
n : a delusional mental disorder that is marked by infantile feelings of personal omnipotence and grandeur.
I think "infantile" seals the diagnosis.
He's unfit for office because he doesn't know what's he's doing. He couldn't govern a class of 1st graders right now.
I also agree it's tragic. I don't feel sorry for him. His daughters? Yah. But him and Patty, no way. They are both sane enough to stop the behavior at some point over the past few years.
Although I will say this, and argue if you want, I think we all suffer from sort of mental issue. We are not perfect by nature.
His wife to ground him? She seems just as un-grounded as he is. They are perfect for each other.
John Gotti also swore he was innocent, but in his world, what he did was considered business as usual. Again, I'm not saying the Governor is a murderer, just that the claim of innocence argument may actually seem to make sense to him on a very twisted leve.
I guess I believe in free will, so I view this sad tale as a melodrama, not a tragedy.
Nonprofessionals are not fit to make that diagnosis. Professionals are not fit to make a diagnosis based on what they see on TV.
It's ludicrous, and saying he's mentally ill either makes light of mental illness, or it lets him off the hook. Neither option is a responsible one.
Hubris is not a mental illness. Egomania is not a mental illness. Greed is not a mental illness. And rank stupidity is not a mental illness. And I think those are diagnoses with which few would disagree.