CapitolFax.com - Latest Comments in Schock roundup and Seals poll

Re: Schock roundup and Seals poll

VanillaMan — Wed, 14 Nov 2007 10:22:56 -0000

Also, that mall post has to be one of the more ridiculous things youâ€™ve ever posted here.

Huh?

Re: Schock roundup and Seals poll

JSF — Wed, 14 Nov 2007 08:21:44 -0000

Wilmette Life, where in the Hotline did Seals poll say Kirk is leading? (here's a hint - it didn't)

Why would Seals poll head to head against Kirk in a poll for a Democratic primary?

Go ahead and advocate for your guy, but do so with facts. You've seen all of the bad poll analysis and untruths debunked on this post already, why add to them?

Re: Schock roundup and Seals poll

Wilmette Life — Wed, 14 Nov 2007 00:09:31 -0000

How embarassing is it for Seals to release a poll to the Hotline showing Kirk leading the race among Democrats? We should take another look at Jay Footlik. My sense is that he would not make such a blunder.

Re: Schock roundup and Seals poll

Captain America — Tue, 13 Nov 2007 21:51:02 -0000

Van Man,

I don't pretend to be a historian or a foreign polciy expert.Can't recall the specific source of my quote from papers I wrote last year when taking courses on terrorism and international relations. .

There is in fact a general consensus among the foreign policy establishment and other objective analysts outside the Bush adminstration- not wild-eyed liberals - that the Iraq War has become,in fact, the greatest strategic disaster in the history of American foreign policy. All you have to do is discard your ideological blinders, pick up a book about the Iraq war, and read it. Or maybe ask Colin Powell.

Here's a represntative quote from a retired general:

"The Iraq invasion was the greatest strategic disaster in Ameican history."
Lt.General William Odem, Retired
Viet Nam Veteran, June 2005

Re: Schock roundup and Seals poll

ArchPundit — Tue, 13 Nov 2007 18:20:03 -0000

I'd highly recommend Mark Bowden's piece on Operation Eagle Claw--I think the message one would take was it was a operational/tactical failure, not so long term large failure of foreign policy.

Re: Schock roundup and Seals poll

Rayfan — Tue, 13 Nov 2007 17:36:52 -0000

Appears Schock has realized he can't spin his way out of this one:

http://www.pjstar.com/php/i...
peoria_schock_admits_mistake_for_nuclear
_weapons_proposal/

Re: Schock roundup and Seals poll

Rich Miller — Tue, 13 Nov 2007 17:33:42 -0000

One more. Pickett's Charge was a blunder by the South while in secession, so I don't count that as an American mistake. Also, it looks more tactical than strategic. Ultimately, though, it handed the USA a huge strategic advantage, so I guess it could go either way.

Re: Schock roundup and Seals poll

Rich Miller — Tue, 13 Nov 2007 17:20:07 -0000

Agreed. I was referring to his own intelligence chief, not the army's. Halberstam's book.

Also, regarding Vietnam, I think the reason it was such a strategic blunder was that the country's strategic importance was so vastly overinflated. It just wasn't that "important" in the big picture, other than to show the Soviets to what lengths we would go to stop them from expanding. Which had its usefulness, of course.

Re: Schock roundup and Seals poll

Pat Collins — Tue, 13 Nov 2007 17:16:10 -0000

Truman was worried sick about China. McArthur used faulty, skewed, ideological based intelligence to say otherwise

Bad luck, I just finished "The forgotten war" an excellent read.

Actually, Mac had no data at all. Eighth Army had a lot that did imply a Chinese intervention. Mac just ignored it but it wasn't what he wanted to hear.

Read No Drums, One Bugle to see a former Marine, later State legis. leader dump on Mac big time.

Re: Schock roundup and Seals poll

True Observer — Tue, 13 Nov 2007 17:10:27 -0000

"Little Big Horn was the last big Indian â€œwin.â€

The Indian Casinos are a bigger "win" and they keep on winning.

Re: Schock roundup and Seals poll

Rich Miller — Tue, 13 Nov 2007 17:07:59 -0000

Also, that mall post has to be one of the more ridiculous things you've ever posted here.

Re: Schock roundup and Seals poll

Rich Miller — Tue, 13 Nov 2007 17:06:42 -0000

Also, Operation Eagle Claw was a tactical failure, but I wouldn't call it a strategic blunder. Plus, it begat our Special Forces, which have turned out to be quite excellent.

Re: Schock roundup and Seals poll

Rich Miller — Tue, 13 Nov 2007 17:04:48 -0000

Also, very few of those items turned out horribly after just a few months or a few years. Here are some other thoughts...

The Civil War was an enormous strategic error by the Confederacy, not the North, for instance.

Ignoring the Japanese threat cost us dearly in the short term, but we won and democraticzed Japan.

Truman was worried sick about China. McArthur used faulty, skewed, ideological based intelligence to say otherwise.

Little Big Horn was the last big Indian "win."

Etc.

Re: Schock roundup and Seals poll

JonShibleyFan — Tue, 13 Nov 2007 17:04:48 -0000

From perhaps the greatest Illinoisan, Abraham Lincoln:

Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.

Re: Schock roundup and Seals poll

True Observer — Tue, 13 Nov 2007 17:02:44 -0000

As you walk around the mall safe and secure from suicide bombers and worse, keep thinking about how Iraq is the biggest blunder in history.

Re: Schock roundup and Seals poll

Rich Miller — Tue, 13 Nov 2007 16:52:09 -0000

Quite a few of those items are tactical, not strategic.

Re: Schock roundup and Seals poll

VanillaMan — Tue, 13 Nov 2007 16:47:21 -0000

"VM, instead of just hurling an insult, why not point out what you believe is a much bigger strategic blunder?"

Really, an insult? Twice today I have heard some over-emotional individual claim that Iraq is the biggest blunder in history. These kinds of claims make me angry because it displays such a utter ignorance of American history.

Where do I begin? Here is just a few dozen...

Sacking of Washington because of wrong usage of ships for naval blockade.
Invasions of Upper and Lower Canada by the US.
Biggest battle occurred two weeks after war ended.
Treaty of Ghent showed that war ended with no winner.
The American Civil War
Bull Run
Pickett's Charge
Little Big Horn
US ignor's Japanese threats prior to Pearl Harbor.
The Italian Campaign in WWII, instead of invading France as desired by US military.
Iwo Jima - 26,000 casualties, and Okinawa - 51,000 casualties 30 days before Hiroshima ended WWII.
Truman ignors China's threat to fight in Korea.
Longest retreat of US military in history, 15000 casualties.
Vietnam
Operation Eagle's Claw

Iraq? PLEASE open a freaking history book!

Re: Schock roundup and Seals poll

ArchPundit — Tue, 13 Nov 2007 16:46:28 -0000

-----First off, I happen to know that when they polled, they made a bunch of bad comments and mentioned some of Footliks â€˜shortfallsâ€™, then conducted the poll. How can you expect that to go any way but the way it did? Not to mention, Seals didnâ€™t even release the whole poll and mention that fact.

Errr...that's what an early poll does. Test your weaknesses and your opponents. That's how polling works for a campaign. You put the generic test up front and then probe what is likely to be both campaigns weaknesses to determine how to determine your strategy.

If you haven't developed a poll for a campaign maybe this all seems strange, but it's standard practice and the sample size is typical. There's nothing out of the ordinary or unexpected.

Footlik has barely been doing any advertising and so his 6% showing isn't unusual. Actually, the story is different than everyone seems to understand--that Jay has low name recognition is to be expected--that primary voters know Dan well enough for him to break 50% is very telling and essentially it's an incumbent versus a challenger in this race for the primary. I can guarantee John Laesch isn't over 50% in his District with primary voters.

Re: Schock roundup and Seals poll

Rich Miller — Tue, 13 Nov 2007 16:35:28 -0000

Only if you lie to them.

Re: Schock roundup and Seals poll

True Observer — Tue, 13 Nov 2007 16:33:30 -0000

Patriot missiles. Pershing missiles.

The average Joe will understand.

Re: Schock roundup and Seals poll

Rayfan — Tue, 13 Nov 2007 16:22:14 -0000

True Observer,

The comparison if a Patriot Missle Defense System to Pershing Nuclear Missles may be the single most ridiculous thing I've read in this whole crazy episode. If I were one of the other guys, I'd be hoping you work for Schock!

C'mon!

Re: Schock roundup and Seals poll

Rich Miller — Tue, 13 Nov 2007 16:17:38 -0000

Also, those are upgrades, according to the article. It's not something brand new.

Re: Schock roundup and Seals poll

the wonderboy — Tue, 13 Nov 2007 16:13:50 -0000

True Observer...are you trying to compare Patriot missiles to nuclear missiles? One is offensive and the other defensive for starters. One is a violation of multiple treaties, the other is not. One saves lives, the other is the most destructive force ever developed by man. Etc...etc...etc...Apples and oranges...apples and oranges.

Re: Schock roundup and Seals poll

True Observer — Tue, 13 Nov 2007 16:10:57 -0000

Schock, ahead of the curve -

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. Defense Department on Tuesday informed lawmakers about a possible sale to Taiwan of Patriot missile system upgrades valued at $939 million and supplied by U.S. defense contractor Raytheon Co.

Re: Schock roundup and Seals poll

the wonderboy — Tue, 13 Nov 2007 15:30:16 -0000

"From the â€œcommon voterâ€ perspective, there is no better test of maturity than your ability to make a million by age 26."

Really? I could think of many things that I find more important. My statement had nothing to do with his ABILITY to make the money, however. It had everything to do with his view that being a millionaire does not make one rich. That, my friend, is severely out of touch with the common voter. Severely.

Make the money--great. Think that you are an average Joe when you are a millionaire--absurdly demented as to the definition of the average Joe. Perhaps you are trying to spin my comments, but I actually said that I have no issue with his ability to make the money or be wealthy. Please take the time to read again.

And I said all of that with a straight face.