That's a $560 difference. You aren't accomplishing the same thing at all, Senator.
Don't Worry, Be Happy
· 8 months ago
It should also be pointed out that the Chronicle engaged in some pretty bad "simplistic stenography" by not countering Mr. Olesen's claim about the GRT. It's not just the man-in-the-street that isn't thinking straight, but the MSM as well.
Rich Miller
· 8 months ago
===Quinn’s plan: $240 tax cut===
Except almost nobody will know they got a tax cut.
Yesterday, thousands of people protested tax hikes, but 95 percent of federal taxpayers are getting a cut this year. Then there's that Ohio poll and that guy at the top of the page.
They'll mostly figure they got a tax hike even if they got a tax cut, so why really bother?
dan l
· 8 months ago
I had a boss not too long ago that claimed our business was actually paying the GRT. When I told him the GRT died, he insisted that it had actually gone through "the back door".
Alternately, he also believed about 80% of the myths from yesterday's qotd.
George
· 8 months ago
Houlihan has the right approach - Give the impression you are giving sales tax relief and property tax relief, and people will accept an income tax relief on high income folks.
His EITC is a little high (the credit back would become about 12% of income, as opposed to 2% now - that might be a hard sell).
Dorothy, we're not in Kansas a
· 8 months ago
On Tuesday, I attended a speech in Kansas by the Lieutenant Governor Mark Parkinson (who will be governor if Kathleen Sebelius is confirmed as Secretary of Health and Human Services). He noted that in the last 10 years, Kansas cut state income taxes twice (they have graduated rates) because they thought the economy would just keep growing, and now they are facing a $1 billion deficit on a $6 billion budget. Of course, it would be difficult to raise the taxes again, since, like Ohio, Kansans probably forgot or never knew about the two tax cuts.
George
· 8 months ago
Good point.
Then I would suggest this - do it in two stages.
Do the hike now, and then do tax relief (exemptions) later.
Leroy
· 8 months ago
Rich - you are concluding Mr. Olesen didn't invest in Illinois due to the GRT.
You are missing the point that even thought the GRT failed, Springfield still needed to raise revenues, and they would shake it out of Mr. Olesen somehow, defunct GRT non withstanding.
Let the anti-tax crowd have their day. Every time taxes or fees go up, people howl that business are going to leave the state, low income people are going to be hurt, mom-and-pop outfits are going to shut down blah blah blah...It never comes to pass.
Pot calling kettle
· 8 months ago
KISS - Houlihan fails on that one.
The state is in a deep hole, people will be mad their taxes went up, so I don't see a big difference between 1% and 1.5%. Bite the bullet folks! 1.5% and raise the personal exemption to $1500 or not at all. There still won't be surplus for years.
A too small increase means another one will be needed in a few years. That $12 billion (over two years) doesn't include the pension debt, which is over $40 billion, or the staffing debt in corrections, or the cost to education of the new Response to Intervention plan (which requires schools to hire lots of new teachers). The list goes on...
Mommy
· 8 months ago
Tax Cuts the size that Quinn and Obama are talking about is nothing compared to the other taxes that are going to be raised to cover the tax cuts that we are going to get. If I get the $240 tax cut that means my property tax will go up $400 so where is the savings? These are just rough numbers but give me a break. How stupid do we look?
SangamoGOP
· 8 months ago
Pundits can keep saying that people don't understand that 95% of fed taxpayers are going to get tax cuts this year, but that isn't the point. IF there are tax reductions for fed taxpayers, there are still giant tax increases at the local and state level and there are certainly going to be tax/fee increases by the fed govt that will impact everyone's bottom line.
While folks might not notice a 'tax reduction' at the federal level, they are sure recognizing the hit from the local school board or city council or park district or General Assembly.
Rich Miller
· 8 months ago
Just a reminder, people. One screen name at a time.
Been There
· 8 months ago
===People are just ignorant in general, I suppose. ==== === One point and be done with it? That may be a more doable plan.==== ===They’ll mostly figure they got a tax hike even if they got a tax cut, so why really bother? ====
Even though I agree with all of the above somehow the politicals can't quite sell it this way. They need something more that will qualify for yesterdays QOTD. All of the above might make good bumper stickers though the next time CapFax does some fundraising.
Reddbyrd
· 8 months ago
Appears Houli is back on the silly sauce during work hours BIG TIME. He needs to go back to misassessing homes. BTW looks like TeaBagers should have hired Eddie Reed to produce their events. When he was grabbing the Blagoof cash he could more people to turn up with the offer of free baloney and a bus ride than turned up in most places yesterday. BTW-2 Did the media if any the TeaBaggers were registered voters?
Rich Miller
· 8 months ago
lol. I don't do fundraising and I don't campaign, so the only place my comments will be twisted out of all recognition is probably here.
Reality Check
· 8 months ago
One point and be done with it? That may be a more doable plan.
Doable how?
Quinn's plan doesn't balance the budget. It doesn't pay the pension debts. It assumes reductions that aren't going to happen. It shorts education and local governments - both political poison pills. It doesn't address property taxes, a cause dear to many legislators.
Raising too little revenue to close the budget hole isn't the solution no matter how it is raised.
Baines 4 Prez
· 8 months ago
People always think they're over-taxed, whether it's true or not is an opinion based on what people's concept of government is/should be. But my test (for Fed. taxes at least) is always to politely ask: Which do you want to eliminate/dramatically cut first: social security, medicare, or defense? When they give you a quizzical look and/or tell you you're crazy, you answer: Well, that's approximately 85% of the federal budget, so when you want to have a discussion on any of these issues, we'll talk about over-taxation.
As to Cullerton's idea vs. Quinn's plan, I agree with above posters that that Quinn structured it that way for a reason. People at the bottom end won't bear the brunt of the increase, and indeed may even receive a cut due to the raise in the deduction. Does Cullerton think that somehow people will be less incensed when they hear: "Your taxes in Illionois have been raised by 33%!" vs. "Your taxes in Illinois have been raised by 50%!"
Pot calling kettle
· 8 months ago
And the tea party people can bite me! Where were they when Bush and the Republican Congress blew the budget surplus?
Folks: The colonists were ticked because the tax money they were paying was going to England, our tax money is right here in the military, roads, schools, taking care of the sick and elderly. Case in point: Don Manzulo complains about all the wasteful spending, comes out against the President's bailout and budget, and then asks for Amtrak rail service to northern Illinois! Was he at one of those tea parties?
Quinn and Obama should lay out no tax increase balanced budgets with all of the cuts they would entail laid out for everyone to see. A "Here's what we can afford with what we have" budget. At a minimum, they need to publicize the money laid out per district and someone should show up with a poster at these tax protests and ask the posturing legislators to cut 25% or 50% of the expenditures in their district.
Greg
· 8 months ago
There are a whole lot of people, places, things, and ideas that most Americans couldn't identify, yet still have an important effect on their decision-making and lives.
Ultimately government receipts as a portion of gdp has a tremendous effect, whether regular Joes can describe the rates and rate changes or not.
Boscobud
· 8 months ago
I want the Illinois Government to give us back what my husband worked hard for. I am a stay at home mom with two boys with autism. My husband and I have a stiff budget including cutting back on therapy for our kids. Our property tax has increased and the sales tax for things like grocery have gone up. My state Rep is about as sharp as a bowling ball, and so who do I go to?
Greg
· 8 months ago
Not that my observation affects the politics of tax changes...
Been There
· 8 months ago
I am throwing myself into the ignorant category here and should probably do some research instead of asking here, but can anyone give a simple explanation where the 12.1 billion deficit comes from? I don't mean which fiscal years, etc. I mean how much are revenues down xx% and expenses up yy% in certain areas? If there are revenue shortfalls because of a drop in income then maybe there is justification to cover just that part of the drop with an income tax increase. If sale tax revenue is down maybe we need to increase the sales tax or get rid exemptions just enough to make up the difference. Same with property tax. If any of the deficit is from increase in expenses then maybe that's where the cuts come from. Tha would make the pain match where the problem has originated but I know that does not make it the politically doable option.
Boscobud
· 8 months ago
Sorry for venting but I had to get that off my chest.
Quacktastic
· 8 months ago
Okay whatever tax cut I've been granted from Obama will likely be eaten up by which ever tax increase actually passes the ILGA. .
steve schnorf
· 8 months ago
I'm just baffled by the GA right now. The leaders know that a 1 1/2% increase with tripling the personal exemption doesn't solve the problem. They know that 1% even without an increase in the personal exemption doesn't solve the problem.
I also believe they know that there's no more political problem or danger in voting for a larger over a smaller increase. Whatever they vote for is going to be THE BIGGEST INCOME TAX INCREASE IN TH STATE"S HISTORY. Why? Because there's only been one permanent tax increase, and it was half a percent. Why don't they just do what needs to be done and get it over with?
VanillaMan
· 8 months ago
Q: How do you know where you are living in fantasyland? A: When you believe everyone is stupid, but you.
I don't like reading insulting comments about citizens and what they believe. The first rule in a democracy is to respect the decisions made by it's citizens, regardless.
As a conservative, there are many voter groups with whom I disagree. But I respect the fact that they feel the way they do. You shouldn't be involved in public service if you don't respect those you serve.
Many voters are very upset. That is a fact. They are taking their feelings out against Big Government, or Big Business, or Big Banks, or The Combine, or whatever. The fact is, they feel that governments have let them down, and they are unwilling to pay more taxes.
Governments have brought this on themselves. These citizen fears are the result of political leaders promising what cannot be delivered. When Obama says he favors universal health care, citizens hear that they will get free, and better, health care. Obama knew this when he said it, and expected the misinterpretations in his favor. This has been how politics has been presented to citizens for decades. The anger felt against governments is the result.
So enough with the snotty comments about how stupid everyone is because they do not understand this or that tax issue or government funding issue. They don't have to know these things. All they have to do is go to the ballot on Election Day and express their views, however misguided. Those blowhards who refused to listen to the majority of these voters will have to find new work after the votes are counted.
The people rule. Right now they are very angry. Instead of insulting them, try listening.
Amuzing Myself
· 8 months ago
I've been amused by the indignant "outrage" over these Tea Parties by the left. I find it pleasantly surprising and encouraging that this segment of voters often called "the silent majority" seems to be coming to life - all spurred back in the '08 campaign by "Joe the Plumber."
Whether you agree or not, this is healthy, just as most of the left argued the significantly more strident and arguably vulgar protests against Bush foreign policy at soldiers' funerals were "understandable."
In the end, they might make little real difference, but even if they make just a couple members of Congress or the GA think a second time about their rush to spend more and raise taxes to pay for it, I think they've served a tremendously useful purpose.
Boscobud
· 8 months ago
Vanillaman,
You should run for Governor. You at least have a brain that is functioning. If I don't see VanillaMan on the Governor ballot I am going to write you down. VOTE FOR VANILLAMAN!!!
wordslinger
· 8 months ago
--I don’t like reading insulting comments about citizens and what they believe.==
But you do like writing them.
Pot calling kettle
· 8 months ago
VM: Listening is good, leading is better.
Part of the problem is leaders who posture instead of lead. I have a huge problem with elected officials who make promises of expenditures without including the cost (read: taxes). The most egregious recent example was when Bush started a war on terror while promoting tax cuts. The American voters would have gone for a war tax in the Fall of 2001, they were ready to do whatever needed to be done to thwart the terrorists. Instead, Bush did what most of our so-called leaders do, he made expensive promises and told everyone that there would be no charge.
Yes, I know, the Dems are as guilty as the Republicans of late. Back in the day, when they paid for new programs with new revenue, they were labeled tax-and-spend (as if that were irresponsible).
Sewanee
· 8 months ago
Don't you think you're being a little exaggerative about Kirk's quote. Wouldn't "shoot them" be similar to "run them out of town" or "tar and feather them", meaning that people would metaphorically be very displeased.
Philosophe Forum
· 8 months ago
The April 2009 Tea Party -- in memory of the 18th Century Boston Tea Party, a genuine terrorist act on U.S. soil -- brought to you by (wait for it . . .) heavily staffed and well funded, uber-Right-Wing, ultra-Conservative lobbyist-run think tanks: Americans for Prosperity and Freedom Works. Heavy promotion courtesy of Fox News (what else is new?). These guys earned their keep, too:
– Freedom Works staffers coordinated conference calls among protesters, contacted conservative activists, provided “sign ideas, sample press releases, and a map of events around the country.â€
– Freedom Works staffers took over the planning of local events in Florida.
– Freedom Works coordinated a “clear message†to the public and media.
– Freedom Works has several domain addresses — some of them made to look like they were set up by amateurs — to promote the protests.
– Americans for Prosperity wrote press releases, planned the events in New Jersey, Arizona, New Hampshire, Missouri, Kansas, and several other states.
That's not enough fuel for the fire. Righ-wingers needed that extra something for a really good blaze. The best person for that job was none other than Newt Gingrich (AKA leader of the corporate-funded American Solutions for Winning the Futures (ASWF)). His contribution: an e-mail blast to supporters reminding them to attend the protests and a talking points toolkit (important to keep the rhetoric consistent!). Remember -- Gingrich's ASWF is funded by polluters and helped orchestrate the "Drill Here, Drill Now" campaign last summer. On an interesting note: ASWF has been an official "partner" in the tea party effort since at least March.
Rich Miller
· 8 months ago
Sewanee, if you can't tell the difference between "shoot them" and "run them out of town," then perhaps you need to take a step back.
Bill
· 8 months ago
Steve's right. It would be pretty stupid to vote for a tax increase and take all the heat and political risk that that would involve and not do very much at all to address the ever increasing budget deficit and burgeoning debt. If they are going to do it,they should do it right so that they don't have to come back again for still more. A HB750 approach would a much better approach than anything that has been proposed so far. The bill is there, the language is there, it has been debated forever. Do the right thing. Pass it and solve a lot of the state's problems.
Sewanee
· 8 months ago
Maybe I do, but the Tribune article you linked to contains this:
"I think that the decision to raise taxes by 50 percent in Illinois is political suicide," Kirk said of Quinn's proposal to raise the tax rate to 4.5 percent from 3 percent, coupled with an increase in the personal deduction. "I think the people of Illinois are ready to shoot anyone who is going to raise taxes by that degree."
His comment on people shooting politicians is a direct reference to political suicide, a term that's very widely used without shock or gasps.
Look, I'm not a huge Kirk fan, but you dedicated an entire post to playing up the shock factor of a one-liner. Seems like something CNN, Fox, or the NY Post would do.
Rich Miller
· 8 months ago
Um, Sewanee, suicide is different from homicide. Look it up.
He needs to apologize for this rant. Period. I'd do this post for any politician wanting to run statewide. Believe it. And if your little feelings are hurt, or his are, I don't really care.
And, aside from the crazy nature of the comment, what kind of a candidate is he gonna be if he spouts stuff like this? What happens if he does it a week before an election?
Rich Miller
· 8 months ago
Also, move your comments to the appropriate thread, please. You're off topic here.
Cassandra
· 8 months ago
Cullerton's proposal may be more practical politically but it is slightly more regressive.
And the people who lose the increased deduction are the ones most likely to really need the money. Not to mention that they are most likely to spend it right away.
Interesting how quickly the Dems lose their concern for the lower economic orders when expediency calls.
Reality Check
· 8 months ago
How's this for strange bedfellows: The people making the most sense on this thread are Cassandra, Bill and Schnorf. I hope that means there is political consensus for doing the right thing.
Sick of it
· 8 months ago
A couple thoughts...... At least the tea parties did not turn into riots like the far Left protests in Seattle a few years ago.
95% of Americans getting tax cuts.....gee, that $16 a month is really a big help!
I realze the state needs more revenue and don't mind an income tax hike that's fair to everyone but Quinns plan seems to target single people unfairly. My girlfriend make around 20k a tear and will see a hike while a family of 4 can make over 3 times that and get a cut. Maybe a compromise would seem fair, increase the standard exemption but not the additional ones.
Rich Miller
· 8 months ago
Sick of it, if you don't care about a small federal tax break, then why get at all upset about a 1 to 1.5 percentage point tax hike which is deductible on your federal taxes?
Sick of it
· 8 months ago
Just sayin that the Federal tax cut is overblown IMO. I don't really have a problem with a state tax increase, just in how low to middle income single people are taking a big hit compared to middle class families.
enrico depressario
· 8 months ago
Here's a plan. Chop all government by 50 percent. The only reason we employ all these yahoos is to serve as patronage armies for the sleazy politicians.
Rich Miller
· 8 months ago
Yeah, that's a plan that'll pass.
C'mon.
Ghost
· 8 months ago
I was supprised at how homogeneous the crowd appeared to be for a tax protest.
JonShibleyFan
· 8 months ago
Amusing, they were protesting, so how were they "silent?"
And a Gallup survey found some 60% of Americans feel taxes are fair. So how are they the "majority?"
@ VM:
"The people rule."
Yes, they do. We DID just have one of those national election thingies five months ago, no? And the people chose.
Pot calling kettle
· 8 months ago
If you cut every single government employee, you would not get to 50%. Most of the money goes to medicare, medicade, pensions, and social security. (and debt service at the federal level)
And how many state police, corrections officers, and military people are you willing to do without? And, have you been complaining about the potholes? Who will fill them? And we could double the class size in schools, that would be a real boon to learning.
Of course, we could all admit we need to pay for the services we expect...
JonShibleyFan
· 8 months ago
And can we stop the notion that this was some people-powered populist uprising? It was a corporate-sponsored, astroturf event full of people who, as the anecdotes like that which Rich relayed point out, had no real idea why they were angry (except maybe that their guy lost in November).
They do not constitute a silent majority (and way to use Nixon references), they are a very vocal minority.
VanillaMan
· 8 months ago
An unphotogenic 48 year old spinster cat woman from a Scottish village appeared on a talent show this weekend, and was roundly laughed at. The crowd whistled and taunted her until they heard her sing. She left the stage with the crowd cheering. A lot of people this weekend saw this event and relearned an old truth - you don't let your prejudices and elitist snobbery close your mind towards neighbors. Everyone has a story to tell.
But all I have been reading since yesterday is insults and catcalls towards the groups of unphotogenic "homogenous" anti-tax crowds who appeared by the hundreds of thousands across the US, angry over how the governments have let us down. I watched MSNBC, CNN, and other ridiculous supposed reporters call these folks "teabaggers" and used frat dorm jokes to insult them.
It is digusting. Imagine if we saw that kind of reporting during the Civil Rights March. Can you ever imagine Walter Cronkite dismissing Martin Luther King on television as some kind of religious nut bent on dragging his Biblical beliefs into Washington? Sure, there were those who opposed the Civil Rights Marches, but did any of the major networks act as partisan, narrow minded or elitist as what we witnessed yesterday?
It is offensive. The first rule in a democracy is to defend one another's right to be heard. To respect differing opinion sincerely presented. Just how long can these pompous TV talking heads keep it up? Why is bigotry and hatred towards those whith traditional views acceptable?
Those who favor big government and feel that taxes should be patriotically paid are not making friends or building bridges. They are not including or healing the country with this kind of prepubescent insults. Enough is enough.
Rich Miller
· 8 months ago
===It was a corporate-sponsored, astroturf event===
Most national protests have organizational sponsorships or direction. That's not new. Somebody has to do the hard work. I think that aspect was way overblown by the other side. It's not easy at all to get people out of their homes and into the streets. It's darned difficult, in fact. Professional help is always advised.
And support for past demonstrations by some of the really big "lefty dem" blogs is probably similar to that of Fox News' support for this one. I mean, what did you expect from Fox?
What'll be interesting to watch is whether they're building some sort of centralized contact list(s), and who is doing it, if anyone, or whether it's gonna be bottom-up p2p, and who will try to take it over.
They're gonna do another round of these on July 4th, I see. That'll be Round 3. We'll know a lot more then.
Rich Miller
· 8 months ago
VMan, on this post you argue that people should watch what they say. On another post, you argue vehemently for totally free speech and deride anyone and everyone (with barely concealed homophobic insults) who believes differently.
Time to take a rest, dude.
Belle
· 8 months ago
As a new tea-party protester i'd like to remind everyone that the tea party was about more than taxes. I and fellow party goers are ticked about the so called bailouts of banks\private industry, the white house firing of a ceo and any government takeover, and we wish to stop the free for all spending that has rewarded the campaign backers of those in Washington DC. Seems like the first days of Blago all over again...
Boscobud
· 8 months ago
I think these protests are a good thing. The big questions is how effective are they. What more does the GOP have to do to get there ideas across? I take that back there were lots of GOP people but there were also Dems at the protests yesterday. It was very interesting watching CNN and Fox News yesterday and what kind of media the protests got. CNN to me looked like they were avoiding the subject but they did have a girl in Chicago and she was rude to the protecters. Then Fox news did none stop coverage which to me was a little over kill.
This was just my observation.
George
· 8 months ago
Rich, a lot of new folks here today.
Rich Miller
· 8 months ago
Hadn't noticed.
SAP
· 8 months ago
Point of clarification on Houli's Sales Tax reduction. The state-imposed rate is 6.25%. A 1.75% reduction takes it down to 4.5%, not 3.25%. He is conveniently ignoring the 1.25% portion that is allocated to local governments and focusing on the 5% that the state keeps.
JonShibleyFan
· 8 months ago
===And support for past demonstrations by some of the really big “lefty dem†blogs is probably similar to that of Fox News’ support for this one.===
A "lefty dem blog" and a billion dollar cable news organization aren't exactly the same. And at least a partisan blog doesn't pretend to be journalism and call itself "fair and balanced."
===I mean, what did you expect from Fox?===
That point I will readily concede.
Rich Miller
· 8 months ago
===A “lefty dem blog†and a billion dollar cable news organization aren’t exactly the same.===
You string a few of those blogs together and you've matched Fox's audience.
walter sobchak
· 8 months ago
I walked down to the protest in Chicago without any help from a 'billion dollar cable news organization' and saw a couple of thousand rather cheery seemingly blue collar and middle class citizens with very imaginative signs walking around with surprised looks on their faces at how many of them there were. Seemed pretty spontaneous, got bigger while I was there, had none of the lock step-ism of 'Bush Lied, People Died' protests of the last few years, and I thought...hey this is pretty cool...democracy at work. Whether the emotions expressed have political legs enough to turn out in 2010 will have to be seen, but if I were a betting man, I would bet that there will be more 'organization' and much bigger crowds on the Fourth of July.
sal-says
· 8 months ago
Yup; read the letter in this am's Trib.
Sounds like Houli just passed the Natl Repub Party's Budget and Finance 101 class. Yeah, the one with a lot of claims, tax relief and no numbers on 'how' to do it.
Sorry....A 'plan' ain't a plan without the 'how we gonna do it' numbers.
2ConfusedCrew
· 8 months ago
During the course of the day, I learned of three TeaBaggers 1. Husband owns an small, but profitable oil company. 2. Works for a hospital 3. Husband for a large equipment maker who sells either to government or to government contractors Hmmmm
Capitol View
· 8 months ago
the original Boston Tea Party was about no taxation without representation.
Apparently the Far Right believes that we only have representation when the Conservative Republicans are in charge.
All Comments
The only people that helps compared to Quinn are those at high income levels.
For a family of 4 making $40,000:
- Cullerton's plan: $320 tax increase
- Quinn's plan: $240 tax cut
That's a $560 difference. You aren't accomplishing the same thing at all, Senator.
Except almost nobody will know they got a tax cut.
Yesterday, thousands of people protested tax hikes, but 95 percent of federal taxpayers are getting a cut this year. Then there's that Ohio poll and that guy at the top of the page.
They'll mostly figure they got a tax hike even if they got a tax cut, so why really bother?
Alternately, he also believed about 80% of the myths from yesterday's qotd.
His EITC is a little high (the credit back would become about 12% of income, as opposed to 2% now - that might be a hard sell).
Then I would suggest this - do it in two stages.
Do the hike now, and then do tax relief (exemptions) later.
You are missing the point that even thought the GRT failed, Springfield still needed to raise revenues, and they would shake it out of Mr. Olesen somehow, defunct GRT non withstanding.
Let the anti-tax crowd have their day. Every time taxes or fees go up, people howl that business are going to leave the state, low income people are going to be hurt, mom-and-pop outfits are going to shut down blah blah blah...It never comes to pass.
The state is in a deep hole, people will be mad their taxes went up, so I don't see a big difference between 1% and 1.5%. Bite the bullet folks! 1.5% and raise the personal exemption to $1500 or not at all. There still won't be surplus for years.
A too small increase means another one will be needed in a few years. That $12 billion (over two years) doesn't include the pension debt, which is over $40 billion, or the staffing debt in corrections, or the cost to education of the new Response to Intervention plan (which requires schools to hire lots of new teachers). The list goes on...
While folks might not notice a 'tax reduction' at the federal level, they are sure recognizing the hit from the local school board or city council or park district or General Assembly.
=== One point and be done with it? That may be a more doable plan.====
===They’ll mostly figure they got a tax hike even if they got a tax cut, so why really bother? ====
Even though I agree with all of the above somehow the politicals can't quite sell it this way. They need something more that will qualify for yesterdays QOTD. All of the above might make good bumper stickers though the next time CapFax does some fundraising.
He needs to go back to misassessing homes.
BTW looks like TeaBagers should have hired Eddie Reed to produce their events. When he was grabbing the Blagoof cash he could more people to turn up with the offer of free baloney and a bus ride than turned up in most places yesterday.
BTW-2 Did the media if any the TeaBaggers were registered voters?
Doable how?
Quinn's plan doesn't balance the budget. It doesn't pay the pension debts. It assumes reductions that aren't going to happen. It shorts education and local governments - both political poison pills. It doesn't address property taxes, a cause dear to many legislators.
Raising too little revenue to close the budget hole isn't the solution no matter how it is raised.
As to Cullerton's idea vs. Quinn's plan, I agree with above posters that that Quinn structured it that way for a reason. People at the bottom end won't bear the brunt of the increase, and indeed may even receive a cut due to the raise in the deduction. Does Cullerton think that somehow people will be less incensed when they hear: "Your taxes in Illionois have been raised by 33%!" vs. "Your taxes in Illinois have been raised by 50%!"
Folks: The colonists were ticked because the tax money they were paying was going to England, our tax money is right here in the military, roads, schools, taking care of the sick and elderly. Case in point: Don Manzulo complains about all the wasteful spending, comes out against the President's bailout and budget, and then asks for Amtrak rail service to northern Illinois! Was he at one of those tea parties?
Quinn and Obama should lay out no tax increase balanced budgets with all of the cuts they would entail laid out for everyone to see. A "Here's what we can afford with what we have" budget. At a minimum, they need to publicize the money laid out per district and someone should show up with a poster at these tax protests and ask the posturing legislators to cut 25% or 50% of the expenditures in their district.
Ultimately government receipts as a portion of gdp has a tremendous effect, whether regular Joes can describe the rates and rate changes or not.
I also believe they know that there's no more political problem or danger in voting for a larger over a smaller increase. Whatever they vote for is going to be THE BIGGEST INCOME TAX INCREASE IN TH STATE"S HISTORY. Why? Because there's only been one permanent tax increase, and it was half a percent. Why don't they just do what needs to be done and get it over with?
A: When you believe everyone is stupid, but you.
I don't like reading insulting comments about citizens and what they believe. The first rule in a democracy is to respect the decisions made by it's citizens, regardless.
As a conservative, there are many voter groups with whom I disagree. But I respect the fact that they feel the way they do. You shouldn't be involved in public service if you don't respect those you serve.
Many voters are very upset. That is a fact. They are taking their feelings out against Big Government, or Big Business, or Big Banks, or The Combine, or whatever. The fact is, they feel that governments have let them down, and they are unwilling to pay more taxes.
Governments have brought this on themselves. These citizen fears are the result of political leaders promising what cannot be delivered. When Obama says he favors universal health care, citizens hear that they will get free, and better, health care. Obama knew this when he said it, and expected the misinterpretations in his favor. This has been how politics has been presented to citizens for decades. The anger felt against governments is the result.
So enough with the snotty comments about how stupid everyone is because they do not understand this or that tax issue or government funding issue. They don't have to know these things. All they have to do is go to the ballot on Election Day and express their views, however misguided. Those blowhards who refused to listen to the majority of these voters will have to find new work after the votes are counted.
The people rule. Right now they are very angry. Instead of insulting them, try listening.
Whether you agree or not, this is healthy, just as most of the left argued the significantly more strident and arguably vulgar protests against Bush foreign policy at soldiers' funerals were "understandable."
In the end, they might make little real difference, but even if they make just a couple members of Congress or the GA think a second time about their rush to spend more and raise taxes to pay for it, I think they've served a tremendously useful purpose.
You should run for Governor. You at least have a brain that is functioning. If I don't see VanillaMan on the Governor ballot I am going to write you down. VOTE FOR VANILLAMAN!!!
But you do like writing them.
Part of the problem is leaders who posture instead of lead. I have a huge problem with elected officials who make promises of expenditures without including the cost (read: taxes). The most egregious recent example was when Bush started a war on terror while promoting tax cuts. The American voters would have gone for a war tax in the Fall of 2001, they were ready to do whatever needed to be done to thwart the terrorists. Instead, Bush did what most of our so-called leaders do, he made expensive promises and told everyone that there would be no charge.
Yes, I know, the Dems are as guilty as the Republicans of late. Back in the day, when they paid for new programs with new revenue, they were labeled tax-and-spend (as if that were irresponsible).
– Freedom Works staffers coordinated conference calls among protesters, contacted conservative activists, provided “sign ideas, sample press releases, and a map of events around the country.â€
– Freedom Works staffers took over the planning of local events in Florida.
– Freedom Works coordinated a “clear message†to the public and media.
– Freedom Works has several domain addresses — some of them made to look like they were set up by amateurs — to promote the protests.
– Americans for Prosperity wrote press releases, planned the events in New Jersey, Arizona, New Hampshire, Missouri, Kansas, and several other states.
That's not enough fuel for the fire. Righ-wingers needed that extra something for a really good blaze. The best person for that job was none other than Newt Gingrich (AKA leader of the corporate-funded American Solutions for Winning the Futures (ASWF)). His contribution: an e-mail blast to supporters reminding them to attend the protests and a talking points toolkit (important to keep the rhetoric consistent!). Remember -- Gingrich's ASWF is funded by polluters and helped orchestrate the "Drill Here, Drill Now" campaign last summer. On an interesting note: ASWF has been an official "partner" in the tea party effort since at least March.
"I think that the decision to raise taxes by 50 percent in Illinois is political suicide," Kirk said of Quinn's proposal to raise the tax rate to 4.5 percent from 3 percent, coupled with an increase in the personal deduction. "I think the people of Illinois are ready to shoot anyone who is going to raise taxes by that degree."
His comment on people shooting politicians is a direct reference to political suicide, a term that's very widely used without shock or gasps.
Look, I'm not a huge Kirk fan, but you dedicated an entire post to playing up the shock factor of a one-liner. Seems like something CNN, Fox, or the NY Post would do.
He needs to apologize for this rant. Period. I'd do this post for any politician wanting to run statewide. Believe it. And if your little feelings are hurt, or his are, I don't really care.
And, aside from the crazy nature of the comment, what kind of a candidate is he gonna be if he spouts stuff like this? What happens if he does it a week before an election?
And the people who lose the increased deduction are the ones most likely to really need the money.
Not to mention that they are most likely to spend it right away.
Interesting how quickly the Dems lose their concern for the lower economic orders when expediency calls.
95% of Americans getting tax cuts.....gee, that $16 a month is really a big help!
I realze the state needs more revenue and don't mind an income tax hike that's fair to everyone but Quinns plan seems to target single people unfairly. My girlfriend make around 20k a tear and will see a hike while a family of 4 can make over 3 times that and get a cut. Maybe a compromise would seem fair, increase the standard exemption but not the additional ones.
C'mon.
And a Gallup survey found some 60% of Americans feel taxes are fair. So how are they the "majority?"
@ VM:
"The people rule."
Yes, they do. We DID just have one of those national election thingies five months ago, no? And the people chose.
And how many state police, corrections officers, and military people are you willing to do without? And, have you been complaining about the potholes? Who will fill them? And we could double the class size in schools, that would be a real boon to learning.
Of course, we could all admit we need to pay for the services we expect...
They do not constitute a silent majority (and way to use Nixon references), they are a very vocal minority.
But all I have been reading since yesterday is insults and catcalls towards the groups of unphotogenic "homogenous" anti-tax crowds who appeared by the hundreds of thousands across the US, angry over how the governments have let us down. I watched MSNBC, CNN, and other ridiculous supposed reporters call these folks "teabaggers" and used frat dorm jokes to insult them.
It is digusting. Imagine if we saw that kind of reporting during the Civil Rights March. Can you ever imagine Walter Cronkite dismissing Martin Luther King on television as some kind of religious nut bent on dragging his Biblical beliefs into Washington? Sure, there were those who opposed the Civil Rights Marches, but did any of the major networks act as partisan, narrow minded or elitist as what we witnessed yesterday?
It is offensive. The first rule in a democracy is to defend one another's right to be heard. To respect differing opinion sincerely presented. Just how long can these pompous TV talking heads keep it up? Why is bigotry and hatred towards those whith traditional views acceptable?
Those who favor big government and feel that taxes should be patriotically paid are not making friends or building bridges. They are not including or healing the country with this kind of prepubescent insults. Enough is enough.
Most national protests have organizational sponsorships or direction. That's not new. Somebody has to do the hard work. I think that aspect was way overblown by the other side. It's not easy at all to get people out of their homes and into the streets. It's darned difficult, in fact. Professional help is always advised.
And support for past demonstrations by some of the really big "lefty dem" blogs is probably similar to that of Fox News' support for this one. I mean, what did you expect from Fox?
What'll be interesting to watch is whether they're building some sort of centralized contact list(s), and who is doing it, if anyone, or whether it's gonna be bottom-up p2p, and who will try to take it over.
They're gonna do another round of these on July 4th, I see. That'll be Round 3. We'll know a lot more then.
Time to take a rest, dude.
This was just my observation.
A "lefty dem blog" and a billion dollar cable news organization aren't exactly the same. And at least a partisan blog doesn't pretend to be journalism and call itself "fair and balanced."
===I mean, what did you expect from Fox?===
That point I will readily concede.
You string a few of those blogs together and you've matched Fox's audience.
Sounds like Houli just passed the Natl Repub Party's Budget and Finance 101 class. Yeah, the one with a lot of claims, tax relief and no numbers on 'how' to do it.
Sorry....A 'plan' ain't a plan without the 'how we gonna do it' numbers.
1. Husband owns an small, but profitable oil company.
2. Works for a hospital
3. Husband for a large equipment maker who sells either to government or to government contractors
Hmmmm
Apparently the Far Right believes that we only have representation when the Conservative Republicans are in charge.