{Who do you think will “win†this blame game battle?}
It is not a question of who will "win", but rather who will lose the least. There will be no winners in this Machiavellian mayhem; only losers, and the body bags have already begun piling up and the stench is becoming overwhelming.
Quinn T, Sential
· 5 months ago
Is this like Christmas morning where you could not wait to get up and play with your new toys? (Thanks for the spell-check BTW, it will go a long way toward making the typographically challenged appear at least somewhat less ignorant)
I am struggling to decide however whether you have either had too much caffeine; or whether you will need to start free basing the stuff before breakfast is even served.
Either way seeing your postings here at this hour seems so uncharacteristic that I am hoping that they publish a public safety bulletin that would prohibit any restaurant from serving you soup at lunch time today. I am genuinely concerned that you could end up face down in the bowl and drown.
Rich Miller
· 5 months ago
lol
Went to bed early, slept for a few hours, woke up and worked. Going back to bed now.
Back to the topic, please.
Quinn T, Sential
· 5 months ago
This story {How reform failed in Illinois -} may some day soon be pointed back at as the beginning of the end for Quinn. Many of the idealists will discard the political pragmatist explanation as just another sell-out. Nobody could blame them for thinking so either.
Levois
· 5 months ago
Is Quinn's difficulty a result of keeping holdovers from the late Blagojevich administration?
Anonymous
· 5 months ago
Levois - I believe a large part of Gov. Q's problems are a result of Blago holdovers. Why should it take so long to get rid of the head of something as tainted as the Health Facilities Planning Board? The Blago appointments in my Dept. are a poison. They are a low hanging fruit that Quinn should have gotten rid of quickly. If he had it would have demonstrated to all that he was serious about changing the culture in state government.
Leave a Light on George
· 5 months ago
Anon @7:04 is me. Don't know what happened.
Cassandra
· 5 months ago
It seems pretty clear that one of the compromises Quinn is not going to make is to fire the Blago holdovers. DHS, DCFS, the Health Facilities Board, every agency really --nearly all the Dem hacks are still there...highly paid hacks too. Occasionally, very occasionally, he fires somebody high-profile, as a sop to the masses, but only with great reluctance. Last month it was Ms. Staggers at DCFS. This month it's the Health Board director. The idea is that we citizens are supposed to believe that this is part of a great sweeping out of Democratic hacks and worse.
It isn't. Quinn has kept the vast majority of Blago hacks and has no intention of firing them. When it comes to the porky Illinois state bureacracy Quinn is the union rep in the governor's mansion. Pretend you are firing the bad apples, but keep everybody on board, add many more (his budget proposal adds hundreds of state employees), and raise everybody's salaries (starting this past July 1, for most state employees). Shared sacrifice doesn't apply to the Quinn bureaucracy. The sacrifice is all on social service contractual agencies (for the moment) and on middle class taxpayers, whose shrinking pocketbook Quinn has been nonstop relentless about raiding. Unions, corporate interests, state bureaucrats...no sacrifices at all.
phil
· 5 months ago
Rich, isn't it time to start blaming Madigan directly. The guy has spent the last 20 years consolidating power, so that alone leaves primary responsibility to him. Also, he has major conflict of interest issues, as it is no secret that his daughter is seriously considering a run for governor against the governor (could it be that Madigan is taking action to help his daughter at the expense of Quinn and the state?)
I may be wrong, but this is worth considering, no?
wordslinger
· 5 months ago
--He (Quinn) said he’s planning to use the next two weeks to build public support for his positions. One of those appearances, he said, would be at a soldier’s funeral. He may be learning this game too well.--
Another flip-flop is in order here. No politicking at soldiers' funerals.
Winners and losers? No one comes out great. Ultimately, the biggest loser will be the House GOP. If there's a tax increase, they'll have to put votes on, which they could have done in May, with probably fewer votes. If there's no tax increase and a Doomsday budget, they'll get the blame for not putting any votes on.
Irish
· 5 months ago
In reality the losers are the taxpayers and those who are losing services now. There will be no winners. Quinn could take a very simple stand and put the GA in the trick box. All he has to hammer on is that Governors have changed and the budget situation is the same. The sad part of all of this is that this dilutes the public perception that Blago was the big problem with the budget issues. Main stream media has not helped this situation because they like to infer that the real issue in the budget mess is the greedy state employees and teachers. Only venues like Rich's have explained in depth why we are where we are. The main stream media is not doing their part in real reporting on the budget issue. I am still seeing large market news stations making their obligatory reports on the budget situation. They have a reporter come on and make a big deal about the budget situation. Then they have a comment by a person on the pro tax side usually someone who would benefit by the tax increase. Then they have a comment from the opposition. Usually someone from the business groups who say " There are more cuts to be made before we look at increasing taxes." Then that is it. Viewer infer what they want. Neither side is questioned about where they would make the cuts or how the tax increase would help. The obligation is met and we go on to a Micheal Jackson story. There they get in depth. I'll bet Blago is rolling on the floor laughing at every news cycle pointing at the TV saying "I told you so." A quick question. If we had recall and it was decided to recall the Speaker, would this go before all the voters or just the voters of the district he represents?
Will County Woman
· 5 months ago
This is an accurate assessment.
And, I wish the Chicago media, particularly the electronic media, had the depth of knowlegde that Rich Miller has in articulating the problems in springfield.
During the memorial day ceremony in chicago, the governor used veterans as the reason why the tax increase was so vital. it wasn't perceived too well by many veterans, particuarly those who opposed being used as the reason for the tax increase. So, I would hope that the public would see the using of military funerals for a political purpose as most unseemly. Because is it. It also speaks to a certain desperation on quinn's part. It suggests, to me, that he'll exploit any and everyone (dead or alive) in an attempt to win an election. So where is the real care/concern for the fallen?
I don't know what people in central, southern and western illinois think of gov. quinn based on his actions as governor, rather than lt. governor. My only hope is that they are paying attention. There is an effective case to be made against him reminaing governor. ( to be honest, there is no shortage of reasons).
had quinn been serious about getting the budget he wanted, rallying legislators to his side should have been have been done before May 31st, instead of late last week for the first time.
Strategically I think that Mike Madigan is in the better and stronger political position ultimately. And, the chicago media needs to stop playing the "whose to blame game" and just call it like it is.
Anonymous45
· 5 months ago
I see nothing new in Quinn's attendance at military funerals...he has been doing that a long time...I do agree that he should not use them as an opportunity to politick...I fail to see any scenario by which Quinn could have gotten the legislature (especially the House) to sign on to a tax increase whilst Madigan was intent on making him look bad...if Pat changes his position, he is a flip flopper...maybe he is just more willing to compromise than are other legislative leaders... I don't see how any of this gridlock is attribtable to any single person....it is a perfect cluster* of years of lazy, entrenched leadership, a recession that won't quit, and lack of political courage...
Brennan
· 5 months ago
Who wins? He who never loses of course.
Michael Madigan.
Actually, I don't know how much value Madigan places on winning. I think it is just get what I want and sell it like I'm losing.
CircularFiringSquad
· 5 months ago
Actually Madigan prefers placing common sense solutions in place to solve problems. Currently he is trying to maximize revenues to offset the Wall Street disaster and keep programs in tact.
The Trib's confirmation that Madigan and Cullerton have nearly seven decades of services and no note of any wrong doing was a refreshing bit of honest reporting
kj
· 5 months ago
that's easy, Lisa wins of course
Bill
· 5 months ago
kj is right. Lisa can just say the word and have any office in Illlinois she wants (except speaker, of course). Just look at the response to the Republican candidate question above. Which of those mopes have a chance against her? None. No matter what happens, Lisa wins, Quinn loses, and the Speaker goes on to fight and obstruct another day.
Louis G. Atsaves
· 5 months ago
"Who do you think will “win†this blame game battle?"
Republicans in Springfield. Locked out. Marginalized. Kept on a jar on a shelf and not allowed any input.
Then suddenly, they became important when Democrats failed in a basic function of government, to prepare and pass a balanced budget.
The public is not buying the "it's the Republicans' fault too!" argument so far. How much longer are the Springfield Democrats going to try to ride that dead horse?
Cassandra
· 5 months ago
If the Republicans (more than a few and including the leaders) vote for a tax increase, that will make it much harder for them to complain about Dem sponsored tax increases during next year's campaigns. No doubt that is one reason why Madigan is so anxious to have at least a few of them on board, preferably including the leaders. If Lisa doesn't run, the Republicans have a decent shot at the governor's chair. On the other hand, if Lisa does run, he wants her to have plenty of government money to throw around when she takes office. So he really needs them to sign on.
The Repubs should be motivated to get some significant tradeoffs in exchange for their support for an increase, since such support could cost them so much in 2010. But are they tough enough to hold out against all the Quinn & Co. caterwauling. Not sure. That's why I wouldn't include Cross or Radogno in the potential Repub candiate group, however personally appealing each may be.
Bill
· 5 months ago
The loser in all of this are the people, including children, who need state supported services. If Governor Quinn had immediately vetoed the budget bill instead of waiting until the last minute, then possibly a compromise could have been reached.
Instead he played high stakes to get all of his income tax increase approved, he lost and lost big. Because of the pending budget shut down, many social service agencies are not taking on new clients. For example right now siting in hospitals are children who could be home, but since the agencies will not fund new home services we get children who could be home stuck in hospitals. This goes on and on with various programs.
Quinn is acting as if he has all the time in the world be get a budget together, he does not. It is very likely that his veto will be over ridden. Really this is a mess.
Balance
· 5 months ago
Bill,
Your memory banks seem to be failing you.
Quinn had no opportunity to veto earlier, as, even though appropriation bills were passed at the end of May, they were not sent to him until the end of June.
Also, Quinn has attempted many compromises including backing off of such as the two-tier pension plan, greater employee pension and health contributions, increased exemptions, and corporate increase at same rate as individual.
He was just not willing to compromise down to the level of 50% for social services.
A valid criticism would be if you think he should have taken 50% rather than zero.
Arthur Andersen
· 5 months ago
The people of Illinois are the losers. We must share our pain at the ballot box next year by sending the Lite Guv to a well-earned retirement.
As long as Filan is drawing a check, fumigating Jeff Mark is not impressive, Pat.
And about the $1 billion in cuts-how could it make sense to you to cut millions of dollars and hundreds of jobs everywhere from DCFS to the State Police, yet leave CMS untouched-no cuts, no layoffs?
Cassandra
· 5 months ago
Backing off of the two tier pension plan and greater employee and health contributions benefits benefits government employees and their unions.
Backing off of the corporate increase benefits corporations.
Backing off of the increased exemptions benefits government coffers but not taxpayers, especially lower and middle class taxpayers on whose behalf Quinn seems unwilliing to compromise. In fact, if his tax increase goes through as proposed, it is this average income group that will bear its greatest burden. The social service contract agencies will be fully funded.
Legaleagle
· 5 months ago
Saying that Lisa is a lock for any office reminds me of Cub fans who said that their team was a lock for the Division! Her dad will be a millstone around her neck in 2010.
Anonymous45
· 5 months ago
AA: Just to set the record straight, CMS will experience lay offs and a $10 million budget cut according to the Daily Herald...everyone take a deep breath...Legaleagle: a very heavy millstone...
Irish
· 5 months ago
Amen AA
I disagree that Lisa has a lock on any office she wants. I think MJM is hurting his image by not leading. The budget mess has put him in the position of having to make a decision. The decision of either being an astute politician and doing what is necessary to protect his members and ensuring his party retains their strength, or being a leader and doing what is necessary to fix the budget mess. He is going to opt to do both but wait until November to do so, no matter who that hurts now. That will tarnish his image and I think some of that rubs off on Lisa. I also agree with Rich in that she is hurting herself by not taking a stand on the most important issue facing the State at this time. She can't take the position that her office does not deal with the budget so she is staying out of it. She was vocal when Blago's budget affected her office so she doesn't get a walk on it now. So she will play the same game and the Madigan name could come to mean those who wait to protect their interets instead of those who act for the public good.
Irish
· 5 months ago
sorry ....their interests...
steve schnorf
· 5 months ago
I think many legislators believe they can escape serious blame at home for what's happening. I believe they are wrong.
This isn't a prison closing in some other part of the state, or some state employees being laid off somewhere. This is your local mental health center, domestic violence shelter, the day programs for developmentally disabled that your neighbor's son goes to, subsidized child care for working poor people right there in your own home town, the community care workers who keep your elderly mom from having to go into a nursing home. I think there is going to be Hell to pay, and there should be.
I think ordinary people aren't going to be the least bit interested in the blame game. I believe their thinking will be more along the lines of "we send you to Springfield, we don't ask much of you, we re-elect you whenever you run, we don't bug you about your salary going up,and you are letting this crap happen right here." I think there's going to be more heat than most members can take.
Anonymous
· 5 months ago
I certainly hope so -- they richly deserve it.
Bill
· 5 months ago
The above "Bill" is an imposter. I am the one and only Bill. Get a new name.
Rich Miller
· 5 months ago
Are you sure Bill?
Bill
· 5 months ago
lol 2:39 is a phony although he does make some good points with no spelling or grammar errors.
grategul
· 5 months ago
My Question Is
Where are all the Good Voters Who Voted Gov. Rod into office Twice ????
Are They standing behind him or what ????
Where are all the Reps etc.
Including JAY HOFFMAN
Who got people JOBS and Wasted Taxpayers Monies
Robbed money from YOU
and spent Foolish
Are They Hiding and ashamed for their ACTIONS
Remember this VOTERS !!!!!
You were taking advantage of for Sure !!!!
SouthernGirl
· 5 months ago
Quinn bills himself as a protector of human services, friend of the poor -- and yet strengthens his political position by offering them up on the chopping block.
How screwed up is that?
He refuses to reassure the nonprofits who contract with the state to provide services that they will be paid if they continue to provide services after July 1st. Regardless of his inability to veto -- why not negotiate in good faith? Same goes for Mr. Madigan.
People who need services, medicines, treatment aren't getting them.
I wish these two men at the top of the power pyramid could try and walk a mile in the shoes of some of the people we've discharged from services. They wouldn't last a day.
Lynn S
· 5 months ago
Sorry, SouthernGirl, I fail to see how Quinn has strengthened his political position by hosing social service providers and clients.
I was willing to give him a chance, but not after he pulled this crappy stunt out of the Blago playbook. Not only is it bad politics, it's not even original!!
Hoping Quinn will face opposition in the Dem primary...doubting it will come to pass, unless Obama admin can be convinced to throw him a fat ambassadorship or cabinet-level post. (and wouldn't it be delightful to be a fly on Blago's wall if such came to pass?? How many arteries would Milorad blow if such irony came to pass??)
VanillaMan
· 5 months ago
Who do you think will “win†this blame game battle?
All Comments
It is not a question of who will "win", but rather who will lose the least. There will be no winners in this Machiavellian mayhem; only losers, and the body bags have already begun piling up and the stench is becoming overwhelming.
I am struggling to decide however whether you have either had too much caffeine; or whether you will need to start free basing the stuff before breakfast is even served.
Either way seeing your postings here at this hour seems so uncharacteristic that I am hoping that they publish a public safety bulletin that would prohibit any restaurant from serving you soup at lunch time today. I am genuinely concerned that you could end up face down in the bowl and drown.
Went to bed early, slept for a few hours, woke up and worked. Going back to bed now.
Back to the topic, please.
It isn't. Quinn has kept the vast majority of Blago hacks and has no intention of firing them. When it comes to the porky Illinois state bureacracy Quinn is the union rep in the governor's mansion. Pretend you are firing the bad apples, but keep everybody on board, add many more (his budget proposal adds hundreds of state employees), and raise everybody's salaries (starting this past July 1, for most state employees). Shared sacrifice doesn't apply to the Quinn bureaucracy. The sacrifice is all on social service contractual agencies (for the moment) and on middle class taxpayers, whose shrinking pocketbook Quinn has been nonstop relentless about raiding. Unions, corporate interests, state bureaucrats...no sacrifices at all.
I may be wrong, but this is worth considering, no?
Another flip-flop is in order here. No politicking at soldiers' funerals.
Winners and losers? No one comes out great. Ultimately, the biggest loser will be the House GOP. If there's a tax increase, they'll have to put votes on, which they could have done in May, with probably fewer votes. If there's no tax increase and a Doomsday budget, they'll get the blame for not putting any votes on.
The sad part of all of this is that this dilutes the public perception that Blago was the big problem with the budget issues. Main stream media has not helped this situation because they like to infer that the real issue in the budget mess is the greedy state employees and teachers. Only venues like Rich's have explained in depth why we are where we are. The main stream media is not doing their part in real reporting on the budget issue. I am still seeing large market news stations making their obligatory reports on the budget situation. They have a reporter come on and make a big deal about the budget situation. Then they have a comment by a person on the pro tax side usually someone who would benefit by the tax increase. Then they have a comment from the opposition. Usually someone from the business groups who say " There are more cuts to be made before we look at increasing taxes." Then that is it. Viewer infer what they want. Neither side is questioned about where they would make the cuts or how the tax increase would help. The obligation is met and we go on to a Micheal Jackson story. There they get in depth.
I'll bet Blago is rolling on the floor laughing at every news cycle pointing at the TV saying "I told you so."
A quick question. If we had recall and it was decided to recall the Speaker, would this go before all the voters or just the voters of the district he represents?
And, I wish the Chicago media, particularly the electronic media, had the depth of knowlegde that Rich Miller has in articulating the problems in springfield.
During the memorial day ceremony in chicago, the governor used veterans as the reason why the tax increase was so vital. it wasn't perceived too well by many veterans, particuarly those who opposed being used as the reason for the tax increase. So, I would hope that the public would see the using of military funerals for a political purpose as most unseemly. Because is it. It also speaks to a certain desperation on quinn's part. It suggests, to me, that he'll exploit any and everyone (dead or alive) in an attempt to win an election. So where is the real care/concern for the fallen?
I don't know what people in central, southern and western illinois think of gov. quinn based on his actions as governor, rather than lt. governor. My only hope is that they are paying attention. There is an effective case to be made against him reminaing governor. ( to be honest, there is no shortage of reasons).
had quinn been serious about getting the budget he wanted, rallying legislators to his side should have been have been done before May 31st, instead of late last week for the first time.
Strategically I think that Mike Madigan is in the better and stronger political position ultimately. And, the chicago media needs to stop playing the "whose to blame game" and just call it like it is.
I don't see how any of this gridlock is attribtable to any single person....it is a perfect cluster* of years of lazy, entrenched leadership, a recession that won't quit, and lack of political courage...
Michael Madigan.
Actually, I don't know how much value Madigan places on winning. I think it is just get what I want and sell it like I'm losing.
The Trib's confirmation that Madigan and Cullerton have nearly seven decades of services and no note of any wrong doing was a refreshing bit of honest reporting
Republicans in Springfield. Locked out. Marginalized. Kept on a jar on a shelf and not allowed any input.
Then suddenly, they became important when Democrats failed in a basic function of government, to prepare and pass a balanced budget.
The public is not buying the "it's the Republicans' fault too!" argument so far. How much longer are the Springfield Democrats going to try to ride that dead horse?
The Repubs should be motivated to get some significant tradeoffs in exchange for their support for an increase, since such support could cost them so much in 2010. But are they tough enough to hold out against all the Quinn & Co. caterwauling. Not sure. That's why I wouldn't include Cross or Radogno in the potential Repub candiate group, however personally appealing each may be.
Instead he played high stakes to get all of his income tax increase approved, he lost and lost big. Because of the pending budget shut down, many social service agencies are not taking on new clients. For example right now siting in hospitals are children who could be home, but since the agencies will not fund new home services we get children who could be home stuck in hospitals. This goes on and on with various programs.
Quinn is acting as if he has all the time in the world be get a budget together, he does not. It is very likely that his veto will be over ridden. Really this is a mess.
Your memory banks seem to be failing you.
Quinn had no opportunity to veto earlier, as, even though appropriation bills were passed at the end of May, they were not sent to him until the end of June.
Also, Quinn has attempted many compromises including backing off of such as the two-tier pension plan, greater employee pension and health contributions, increased exemptions, and corporate increase at same rate as individual.
He was just not willing to compromise down to the level of 50% for social services.
A valid criticism would be if you think he should have taken 50% rather than zero.
As long as Filan is drawing a check, fumigating Jeff Mark is not impressive, Pat.
And about the $1 billion in cuts-how could it make sense to you to cut millions of dollars and hundreds of jobs everywhere from DCFS to the State Police, yet leave CMS untouched-no cuts, no layoffs?
benefits government employees and their unions.
Backing off of the corporate increase benefits corporations.
Backing off of the increased exemptions benefits
government coffers but not taxpayers, especially lower and middle class taxpayers on whose behalf Quinn seems unwilliing to compromise. In fact, if his tax increase goes through as proposed, it is this average income group that will bear its greatest burden. The social service contract agencies will be fully funded.
I disagree that Lisa has a lock on any office she wants. I think MJM is hurting his image by not leading. The budget mess has put him in the position of having to make a decision. The decision of either being an astute politician and doing what is necessary to protect his members and ensuring his party retains their strength, or being a leader and doing what is necessary to fix the budget mess. He is going to opt to do both but wait until November to do so, no matter who that hurts now. That will tarnish his image and I think some of that rubs off on Lisa. I also agree with Rich in that she is hurting herself by not taking a stand on the most important issue facing the State at this time. She can't take the position that her office does not deal with the budget so she is staying out of it. She was vocal when Blago's budget affected her office so she doesn't get a walk on it now. So she will play the same game and the Madigan name could come to mean those who wait to protect their interets instead of those who act for the public good.
This isn't a prison closing in some other part of the state, or some state employees being laid off somewhere. This is your local mental health center, domestic violence shelter, the day programs for developmentally disabled that your neighbor's son goes to, subsidized child care for working poor people right there in your own home town, the community care workers who keep your elderly mom from having to go into a nursing home. I think there is going to be Hell to pay, and there should be.
I think ordinary people aren't going to be the least bit interested in the blame game. I believe their thinking will be more along the lines of "we send you to Springfield, we don't ask much of you, we re-elect you whenever you run, we don't bug you about your salary going up,and you are letting this crap happen right here." I think there's going to be more heat than most members can take.
2:39 is a phony although he does make some good points with no spelling or grammar errors.
Where are all the Good Voters
Who Voted Gov. Rod into office Twice ????
Are They standing behind him or what ????
Where are all the Reps etc.
Including JAY HOFFMAN
Who got people JOBS and Wasted Taxpayers
Monies
Robbed money from YOU
and spent Foolish
Are They Hiding and ashamed for their ACTIONS
Remember this VOTERS !!!!!
You were taking advantage of for Sure !!!!
How screwed up is that?
He refuses to reassure the nonprofits who contract with the state to provide services that they will be paid if they continue to provide services after July 1st. Regardless of his inability to veto -- why not negotiate in good faith? Same goes for Mr. Madigan.
People who need services, medicines, treatment aren't getting them.
I wish these two men at the top of the power pyramid could try and walk a mile in the shoes of some of the people we've discharged from services. They wouldn't last a day.
I was willing to give him a chance, but not after he pulled this crappy stunt out of the Blago playbook. Not only is it bad politics, it's not even original!!
Hoping Quinn will face opposition in the Dem primary...doubting it will come to pass, unless Obama admin can be convinced to throw him a fat ambassadorship or cabinet-level post. (and wouldn't it be delightful to be a fly on Blago's wall if such came to pass?? How many arteries would Milorad blow if such irony came to pass??)
The GOP.
That's pretty funny, Vannie.