CapitolFax.com - Latest Comments in This just in, Part 2… Sorich conviction upheld

Re: This just in, Part 2… Sorich conviction upheld

Disgusted — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 07:14:08 -0000

"Just wondering" - It's very curious, isn't it, how these things happen. :-) How does a secretary climb to bureau chief with no education and no experience? How come a person with a Master's degree and tons of experience inside and outside of state government can't get an interview to rise up the ranks? Could it be they weren't "somebody what somebody sent?" At least unionization helps them get a raise for the two or three persons' jobs most are doing. The saddest part of all of this is that the taxpayers of this state wait and wait and wait for paperwork and information from state government and they can't understand why the wheels turn so slowly. Most corrupt state in the union.

Re: This just in, Part 2… Sorich conviction upheld

A Citizen — Tue, 15 Apr 2008 23:33:35 -0000

- Speaking at Will -
"...When will the voters do thier part and fire that man. ..."
When Daley's son returns from the military in Iraq and can run for Mayor! Illinois, the Land of the Dynasty. And proud of it.

Re: This just in, Part 2… Sorich conviction upheld

Speaking at Will — Tue, 15 Apr 2008 23:23:56 -0000

The sad part of all of this is that it will never get Daley unseated from his Ivory Tower. When will the voters do thier part and fire that man.

Re: This just in, Part 2… Sorich conviction upheld

Plutocrat03 — Tue, 15 Apr 2008 23:12:03 -0000

I can speak to one method used in 'selecting' candidates for a job.

The Civil Service commission has personal interviews as an element of the hiring process. Magically the number or points the Commission awards based on the personal interview is large enough to overcome any deficit from the testing process.

They also make judgements based on who will 'fit in' to the current workforce.

Want to bet what the demographic analysis shows?

I lover hearing about the County hiring process as well. The story asserted that the application process is kept open until 7 people who meet the MINIMUM criteria apply. Clearly, that is not geared for the best quality individuals.

The citizens who pay for the services deserve better.....

Re: This just in, Part 2… Sorich conviction upheld

Roy Slade — Tue, 15 Apr 2008 22:56:24 -0000

The current administration has spent millions acting like they are following the laws- "above reproach". The fact remains, they have handpicked the employees in the various Human Resources divisions who conduct the interviews and "grade" the applicants.

They have taken it to a new low by having the various (career) managers sign a form stipulating that "politics had nothing to do with the appointment of the new employee", when in fact, all of them play poker with the democratic county chairman each week. It is just a joke! If you contol the "process of hiring" (or contracts, purchasing, etc)- and control the budget- then you should be held accountable when laws are violated.

Re: This just in, Part 2… Sorich conviction upheld

Fritzel — Tue, 15 Apr 2008 21:42:27 -0000

Citizen is correct.

For example, like him or not, George Ryan had all his peeps in place ready at the curb on Day One, and state government kept running. It was a relatively smooth transition; his downfall was by and large, if not completely, separate from the day-to-day operations of state government.

Re: This just in, Part 2… Sorich conviction upheld

Arthur Andersen — Tue, 15 Apr 2008 21:40:55 -0000

Bill, we might disagree on a few things, but you are spot on in noting that the patronage system had its own disciplinary process and it worked pretty well. I had quite a few clouted ones on my payroll over the years, and if they wouldn't shape up, a call to the Chinaman usually cured the matter right pronto.

The labor relations were also different then. With the craft/trades guys, (some of the absolute best people to ever work with) they did not want the local to have a meathead in a building and we didn't want a boiler to blow up or have someone getting fried at a switch panel. If someone wasn't cutting it, they usually bagged the guy before we could.

Nothing like a box of donuts and a bottle of Jack to end a productive day.

Re: This just in, Part 2… Sorich conviction upheld

A Citizen — Tue, 15 Apr 2008 21:23:50 -0000

- just wondering -
Obviously you are witnessing the political hack process of blago's administration. True professional political admins do not operate that way. Oddly, it seems, the walker and blago "maverick" types never learned how to administer state gov,t. Cheer up, this too shall pass!

Re: This just in, Part 2… Sorich conviction upheld

Bubs — Tue, 15 Apr 2008 21:21:51 -0000

Bill and Fritzel are missing the legal point. The defendants were convicted of mail fraud for defrauding the City and its people of honest services, not violating the Shakman Decree.

Re: This just in, Part 2… Sorich conviction upheld

just wondering — Tue, 15 Apr 2008 21:16:20 -0000

Please, please, please, check out the hiring practices at IDOT (one of the southern Districtâ€™s). Iâ€™m still mystified how a 20 year old with only 1 college class (that he did not finish) and with less than 1 year full time experience could beat out someone with a Masterâ€™s degree in Human Resources and at least 10 years experience with an excellent work history and evaluations. Then tell me how someone with a GED could replace someone with an engineering degree and run a department and the person with the GED canâ€™t even read a map. Iâ€™ve got at least 20 more.

Re: This just in, Part 2… Sorich conviction upheld

A Citizen — Tue, 15 Apr 2008 21:04:25 -0000

-AA-
"... #

With tongue in cheek, consider this-does anyone know an assistant US Attorney who was clouted into his or her spot? ... " AA, that is the MOST exclusive patronage club known to mankind! Do you know of any of them that did not get there but for recommendations from judges and other lawyers? That's just disgusting. The elitism is mind boggling.

Re: This just in, Part 2… Sorich conviction upheld

Fritzel — Tue, 15 Apr 2008 20:52:48 -0000

Steve: =viewed by the courts as something of a racketeering enterprise=

Your equivocation in the guise of passive voice intrigues me and proves a point.

Pretty much anything is "mail fraud" and now RICO.

My biggest concern is that actual crime (like bribes or extortion) will be ignored or obscured by these "gimmees."

Is it more like Phil Esposito hanging out in front of the net the entire game or slam-dunking a Nerf in your toddler's basketball net?

When someone revered by the MSM (let's make up a name--Bill Ayers) gets whacked on one of these counts, we'll see the reaction.

Re: This just in, Part 2… Sorich conviction upheld

Steve — Tue, 15 Apr 2008 20:32:45 -0000

Mayor Daley and gang should be concerned.Chicago's patronage army is now viewed by the federal courts as something of a racketeering enterprise.Who's next? Victor Reyes,John Daley(the man Sorich drove downtown)? The fact that many Aldermen funded the city government, an illegal patronage operation,opens up questions on the lack of oversight by such Aldermen as Bernie Stone,Dick Mell,and certainly Ed Burke.Just how could these Aldermen not catch this racketeering enterprise?

Re: This just in, Part 2… Sorich conviction upheld

A Citizen — Tue, 15 Apr 2008 20:16:12 -0000

Supervising patronage supplied workers is much more effective than those supplied by "civil service" systems. If they in some way cause a problem you simply call their clout (for which you are thanked) and the problem is remedied or you have the green light to fire them. Political referrers have reputations and are loathe to have them tarnished. If anything needs reform it is the merit system, AFSCME, and SEIU. Since Pete Vallone in the Thompson era started giving state employment control to AFSCME along with union shop, guaranteed dues paying members, the state administration has been effectivel neutered. Fitz doesn't know what he is talking about when it comes to real corruption - note to Fitz, "take a good hard look at AFSCME and how they got control of state employment." Patronage activity is 5% to 10% what it ever was. State "managers" are even unionized now. Get a clue Fitz, you are chasing a ghost from 2 or 3 decades ago.

Re: This just in, Part 2… Sorich conviction upheld

Fritzel — Tue, 15 Apr 2008 20:07:29 -0000

Bill: Shakman was/is a trouble-maker who started a frivolous lawsuit.

The only "solace" for Sorich is that he had, for better or for worse, the built-in protections of our criminal justice system to fight what were essentially civil violations of a consent decree that should never been entered in the first place.

A lot of good that did him.

U.S.D.C.(N.D. Ill.) juries are, as a general rule, predisposed to believe whatever the Government says.

You don't get a lot of time to pick the jury in federal court, so the lawyers knock off all the social workers from Evanston and the cops from Mt. Greenwood, and cross your fingers on whoever is left.

At least it's the same for both sides at that stage.

There is at times an anti-Chicago prejudice stemming from the fact that the base of the venire goes all the way out to Ottawa and beyond.

There is also the general philosophy, that, if the feds are prosecuting, s/he MUST be guilty.

Finally, if the judge feels strongly one way or the other, the jury will take His/Her Honor's unspoken guidance. More than the attorneys, and worse, more than the parties--either government or defense.

Even though the pattern jury instructions usually say "nothing I say or do should give you reason to believe that one side or the other should prevail..."

Re: This just in, Part 2… Sorich conviction upheld

Patrick McDonough — Tue, 15 Apr 2008 19:59:57 -0000

This is a great day for the people that put their necks on the line. Thank God. More work to do.

Re: This just in, Part 2… Sorich conviction upheld

A Citizen — Tue, 15 Apr 2008 19:48:27 -0000

-Bill- & -AA-
We should form a consulting outfit to guide these whippersnappers in the true path of "The Force". They obviously are naive and desperately in need of the true knowledge only we can provide.

Re: This just in, Part 2… Sorich conviction upheld

Fritzel — Tue, 15 Apr 2008 19:41:19 -0000

Bill: I am not young nor a whippersnapper.

I agree with your analysis of the instant situation.

My disagreements were with your characterization of Blago as the greatest governor ever.

Re: This just in, Part 2… Sorich conviction upheld

Bubs — Tue, 15 Apr 2008 19:37:34 -0000

1. Whether there is a problem depends on what your job actually entails.

2. Bob Sorich deserves every bit of it, and should have thought of his family before getting involved in this. He should think of his family now and start talking.

3. The only unfair part of is will be if the Sorich 4 do not see the people above them, who gave the orders and reaped the benefits, go to prison, too.

4. They are real criminals.

Re: This just in, Part 2… Sorich conviction upheld

Bill — Tue, 15 Apr 2008 19:31:02 -0000

As long as an employee does his/her job there should be no problem. Actually patronage probably made employees more accountable than they are now. As far as the disrespect is concerned, I'm used to it from these young whippersnappers, AA. I hope Mickey Shakman sleeps really well tonight knowing that his frivolous lawsuit is now considered criminal law and instead of being home with his family Bob Sorich will be in prison.
God forbid that the USA goes after some real criminals. That might be too much like work.
Now let's go look for a Mel-O-Creme.

Re: This just in, Part 2… Sorich conviction upheld

Bubs — Tue, 15 Apr 2008 19:06:52 -0000

Big Big Big Big Big Big Big Big Big Big Big Big Big!

The lights will burn late in Democratic Machine offices tonight.

Re: This just in, Part 2… Sorich conviction upheld

Fritzel — Tue, 15 Apr 2008 19:06:44 -0000

Arthur Andersen: Every Single One. And every single employee in that building (or any government building) is somebody from somewhere.

And trust me, they, of all governmental units, especially don't want nobody nobody sent, as we all know the sun rises and sets over the US Attorney's Office.

Again, I have no problem with this--these folks are more than qualified for the positions they hold. When hypocrisy is demonstrated, I take issue.

Wow, I also agree with YDD for the first time as well: It IS more like Survivor.

In more ways than one.

Re: This just in, Part 2… Sorich conviction upheld

IDOT Guy — Tue, 15 Apr 2008 18:56:33 -0000

Yo MacBeth, I have been through
"Rutan Training", and what they tell you is that the interview matters most. You are not allowed to call former employers or references. If you don't get a job over someone else all they have to say is that "they interviewed better". They don't even have to give details, been there done that.

Re: This just in, Part 2… Sorich conviction upheld

Fritzel — Tue, 15 Apr 2008 18:54:44 -0000

Hoisted: They can stack five deep but that doesn't mean you or I are obligated to vote for their candidate any more than you or I are obligated to buy liquor or cigarettes due to the presence of billboards in our neighborhoods.

I don't see why patronage hiring is the end of the world.

If you screw up, they will can you. They cannot and/or will not with Civil Servants and Union employees.

The problem is if employees are doing political work on the city's/county's/state's dime or time; or if they get comp time for political work.

"Culture of corruption" is about as nebulous as "hope" and "change."

Re: This just in, Part 2… Sorich conviction upheld

Arthur Andersen — Tue, 15 Apr 2008 18:47:38 -0000

Wow, the grassy knoll folks are out in force today. Bill and A, AA is another old coot. We never get any respect, especially Bill. Why would we get any today?

With tongue in cheek, consider this-does anyone know an assistant US Attorney who was clouted into his or her spot?