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Re: United tax break looms large

Calypso — Wed, 15 Nov 2006 18:55:36 -0000

archpundit is right. Besides, anyone who still believes that the Laffer Curve works cannot be trusted to provide actual facts.

Re: United tax break looms large

Just Say No — Wed, 15 Nov 2006 08:35:44 -0000

As someone who live in Cook County and works in DuPage county, I can say I have not bought gas in Cook County in close to 10 years.

I assume plenty of people live in Illinois and work in St. Louis. They are in St. Louis on a daily basis, and do there 'sin' purchasing there. I agree people won't go out of their way to avoid taxes, but how many people DO NOT have to go out of their way to avoid paying them?

It's a real b*tch when practicality interferes with public policy.

Re: United tax break looms large

archpundit — Tue, 14 Nov 2006 16:52:39 -0000

Because someone has a sign or some bit of anecdotal evidence isn't a way to make rational public policy. In fact basing public policy on anecdotes is probably the reason for most bad public policy.

Illinois is only slighly above the median in terms of cigarette taxes. That means for someone to cross over to Missouri to get take advantage of the about 80 cent difference, the time and gas saved would have to be better than simply stopping in Illinois. There aren't many people who find it a valuable use of their time to spend 20 minutes to save 80 cents. Those that do are irrational about taxes unless they believe their time is worth $2.40 per hour.

The problem, then, with basing taxation policy on such people who do such things is that you are basing taxation policy on irrational people thus resulting in irrational taxation policy.

It's a basic problem for people who are reflexively against any tax---the arguments aren't economic, but emotional.

Re: United tax break looms large

Just Say No — Tue, 14 Nov 2006 16:35:56 -0000

>The problem with this is that every study done of this says it doesnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t happen.

Which is way every single gas station on the DuPage County side of the Cook / DuPage border has a huge sign that says 'NO COOK COUNTY TAXES HERE'

Re: United tax break looms large

archpundit — Tue, 14 Nov 2006 15:38:51 -0000

====This is why Illinois residents flock to Missouri to buy gas and cigarettes.

The problem with this is that every study done of this says it doesn't happen.

Has been states include Mississippi, Alabama, Arkansas and increasingly Missouri. Illinois could improve a lot of things, but it has one of the greatest economic engines in the country and is a state that sees more highly educated workers come into the state than leave the state. That's not true for most low tax states.

Re: United tax break looms large

Horseshoe — Tue, 14 Nov 2006 12:29:50 -0000

I think this is a bad idea. As Squid mentioned earlier, this is corporate welfare. While I'm not always opposed, United is in such a position that it would be greatly to their disadvantage to move from Chicago. They have so much infrastructure here that that building new buildings, training new staff, etc. greatly outweighs the price of fuel. Giving United more money might actually hurt Chicago business in the long run because smaller operations with less infrastructure in the city would turn away from Chicago. Smaller companies have less to lose leaving Chicago or not entering the market all together.

Re: United tax break looms large

Horseshoe — Tue, 14 Nov 2006 12:25:35 -0000

Do you ever enjoy anything Vanilla? Anytime I glance at a post of yours its all gloom and doom. Do you have anything to back up that 1982 comment? Stats that show a decrease in business? A decrease in investments? Constant slowdowns in construction maybe?

Also if this state is so bad, why in the world do you continue to live here?

Based on the fact that last week you were predicting that the Democrats wouldn't win the House and certainly not the Senate and that Topinka and Radogno would win, I guess Chicago and Illinois are really headed for economic greatness.

Re: United tax break looms large

VanillaMan — Tue, 14 Nov 2006 11:40:55 -0000

Illinois is a has-been state. It has been a has-been state since 1982. What has-been states do is bribe has-been corporations.

Chicago and Illinois is headed for a huge collapse. As the major auto parts supplier for Detroit, Chicago will lose spectacularly as Detroit fails. The enormous social programs granted by the Democratic party here will continue to expand as this happens, eating what little is left in the fiscal budget. Taxes will rise, driving others away. Like Michigan, Illinois is on the brink of ruin.

You would have to be insane to locate a business in Illinois. Even the giants that once ruled the corporate world are branching into open market states in the SW and SE, or overseas. Other Illinois corporations are being bought out by larger firms from healthy states. Illinois is a has-been.

So go ahead and see if Blagojevich can keep United from bankrupsy for a couple more years. It won't work. Go ahead and pass more social programs. Go ahead and start raising taxes to pay for it all. Welcome to the death spiral for has-been states.

Re: United tax break looms large

Truthful James — Tue, 14 Nov 2006 10:15:00 -0000

Southwest has managed to minimize its fuel costs by hedging in the futures marketplace. I hear that tyheir hedges go out as far as two years.

Which is one reason why Southwest can add new destinations and keep fares low. Hedges are not free.

Now United wants free lunch.

And from where will the revenue be obtained to replace United's rebate?

Re: United tax break looms large

Squideshi — Tue, 14 Nov 2006 10:14:20 -0000

There's another term for this--corporate welfare.

Re: United tax break looms large

BIG R.PH. — Tue, 14 Nov 2006 09:38:48 -0000

Once again this just proves the point that all politicians should pay heed. Illinois is NOT an island 500 miles from anywhere. Taxpayers of any sort will do whatever they can to avoid paying a tax. This is why Illinois residents flock to Missouri to buy gas and cigarettes. The point is that this state has to be competitive in the marketplace (in this case gasoline taxes) so that taxpayers purchase goods and services in THIS state so that we receive the tax revenue as opposed to purchasing it in another state so that another state receives the revenue.

The Laffer curve works!!