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Re: Will the gay marriage amendment impact November?

Sky — Tue, 07 Nov 2006 23:45:15 -0000

i think that gay marriage should be legalized if you love someone does it really make it any differnt? Yes some people look down on it, but then agian people have alot of oppions on alot of other things too. So just stop all this fighting and just LEAGALIZED it already. Gay marriage isn't hurting anyone if anything its making things better so just stop the drama and say YESS!

Re: Will the gay marriage amendment impact November?

Doubting Thomas — Wed, 10 May 2006 17:15:44 -0000

God loves all sinners (which basically means all people, b/c there isn't one of us who hasn't sinned and won't sin again in one way or another). And, all believers will be saved.

Yes, I might get kicked out of some churches after a period of time. I guess some believe that they are without sin and justified in pointing the finger and punishing those whom they believe to be sinners.

Some take it one step further and say that because you are gay, you cannot marry, and because you cannot marry, you cannot be sexually active. So, either be chaste and repent and join our church (ala ex-gay movement and gay bar visitor Jon Paulk), or burn in hell. All of that seems terribly inconsistent with the kind and loving God that I know, and the command that we should love our neighbors as ourselves, and do unto others as we would have them do unto us.

Not letting same-sex couples marry seems to me to be denying them a basic political freedom and religious sacrament. As Dick Cheney said, "Freedom means freedom for everybody", and on that point, he is right.

Nice chatting with you. Now I REALLY must go.

Re: Will the gay marriage amendment impact November?

Rich Miller — Wed, 10 May 2006 16:31:50 -0000

I'm curious, "The Conservative," but would a divorced person be allowed in that church who refused to remarry the person he or she divorced? This is a legit question, not snark.

Re: Will the gay marriage amendment impact November?

The Conservative — Wed, 10 May 2006 16:15:14 -0000

I hate to dissagre with you. If you where to attend Boble beleiving church, you would be welcomed. However if you where to continue practicing your sin be it either living with a man or a woman without marriage, after a reasonable time your actions would be condemed and probably asked to leave as you would not be allowed to violate the church laws which are in agreement with God's law. This is consistant and is God's love. Remember before you twist this I said provided your are making no attempt to change your behavior.

Re: Will the gay marriage amendment impact November?

Doubting Thomas — Wed, 10 May 2006 15:40:24 -0000

Additional direct conversation about marriage between you and I would not be a worthwhile endeavor. Neither one of us is part of the fungible middle. And, while I am certain that both of our views on the subject have religious foundations, I assure you that the foundations are quite different, including very different views of what the Bible has to say about all of it.

On this issue, you are part of the opposition. That doesn't make you a bad person. But I generally do not understand what kind of person would deny another what I think is an important human right and religious sacrament. Look, I can be baptised, confirmed, take communion in and be buried by just about any church that I would chose to join. And they will all take my money, trust me. But there are a lot who would not allow me to marry the partner of my choice.

And some churches are taking it a step further by doing things like passing this petition around. It's in my interests to know who those churches are, and what are their ties to politicians.

Thanks for the chat.

Re: Will the gay marriage amendment impact November?

The Conservative — Wed, 10 May 2006 14:35:02 -0000

Surprised you mentioned Romeny, he is Mormon and according to your thinking would be ruled out. Keys is a great guy,terrible campaigner.You seem to be obsessed. What happened to talking about the Family marriage act. Well I have to get back to listening to the rest of Rush.

Re: Will the gay marriage amendment impact November?

Doubting Thomas — Wed, 10 May 2006 14:27:59 -0000

Assembly of God.

Re: Will the gay marriage amendment impact November?

The Conservative — Wed, 10 May 2006 14:25:27 -0000

John is a wonderful Godly man, would be proud to work for him anytime. Rom is to liberal. Not hard to work in a state that chose JBT. Just get to work for Legislators and Congress.

Re: Will the gay marriage amendment impact November?

Doubting Thomas — Wed, 10 May 2006 13:23:07 -0000

I guess it is safe to say that no Muslims were involved in your petition effort. Probably no Jews, either? Ditto Hindis, Buddhists, Native Americans, etc.?

What about the Mormons? They don't really consider themselves Protestants or Christians, do they?

And the Catholics, well, some had to be involved -- that would be part of the Conservative Hispanic vote, now wouldn't it?

Must be hard to be a "conservative" Republican in a state that chose Topinka to be the Republican nominee for Guv. I'll bet somebody like, say, Mitt Romeny or John Ashcroft would be more to your liking. Or maybe Alan Keyes?

Re: Will the gay marriage amendment impact November?

The Conservative — Wed, 10 May 2006 12:34:57 -0000

This is becoming silly, perhaps I am keeping you from polishing your silver.

Re: Will the gay marriage amendment impact November?

The Conservative — Wed, 10 May 2006 12:31:34 -0000

My God lives, theirs is dead.

Re: Will the gay marriage amendment impact November?

Doubting Thomas — Wed, 10 May 2006 12:27:54 -0000

So, I think that you must be a Republican Precinct Chair within Cook County.

Tell me, what differentiates you from an Islamist, other than that they worship Allah and read the Koran while you worship God and apparently read some version of the Bible that I haven't ever seen (thou shalt go forth and register voters - is this the Pat Robertson translation of the Bible?)?

Re: Will the gay marriage amendment impact November?

The Conservative — Wed, 10 May 2006 11:54:25 -0000

You are funny, Seems as though you are the one interested in peoples sex lif. I have never said such a thing. I am involved in all aspects of the conservative social issues because I am a christian. Christianity and politics go hand in hand. I am involved with several church org as well as the political. One thing you are correct on I and many others conduct large scale voter registration drives within several churches. Good christian stewardship. My first call is to do His work, if that leads to political, then it does. No appologies. I do feel sorry that you seem to have a low self worth and a great deal of anger, thinking the world bullies you because you are gay. Perhaps the world just dissagrees with you.

Re: Will the gay marriage amendment impact November?

Doubting Thomas — Wed, 10 May 2006 11:26:43 -0000

No, I am not surprised and I also don't see how that negates what I noted above. But I will add to that list that you live in Cook County or one of the collar counties, love talking about yourself, and are way too concerned with other people's sex lives. Oh, and you like to think of yourself as a "man's man", and I'll go out on a limb and say that at least one of your kids is a girl. No where on your list was any mention of a wife, which is interesting. My bet is your ties to the Conservative Hispanic and Black religious communities has something to do with being a Republican chair (precint? county?), and that you may help register them to vote or take them to the polls or some such thing.

Re: Will the gay marriage amendment impact November?

Pete Granata — Wed, 10 May 2006 11:24:38 -0000

Conservative: What unit were you in in Vietnam. Which state agency did you work for. What is the the name of your church.

Re: Will the gay marriage amendment impact November?

The Conservative — Wed, 10 May 2006 10:47:54 -0000

Laughing, You might just be surprised if you knew me, I live in a racially mixed area, work withing the Conservative Hispanic church community, have great relationship with several Conservative Black church leaders, heavely involved in Pro-Life movement and other org. raised two kids, involved in the community, party Chairman, church leader. Your Psych course needs to be taken over. I do not seek reconigition, just the opposite, however when duty calls I serve.Oh and you are wrong on age, I served in Viet Nam and took early retirement from the state. Better look at your crystal again.

Re: Will the gay marriage amendment impact November?

Doubting Thomas — Wed, 10 May 2006 10:17:03 -0000

"Conservative", you represent several different denominations (or like to think that you do), have a pronouced interest in power, and don't get enough attention (for gaybashing or other bullying-type actions that you engage in regularly) in your "for real life" so you come on websites like this to find it. You are a white male, probably middle-aged, whose job isn't particularly demanding, if you have one at all. Life has been something of a disappointment to you, and you blame others for your and the world's problems. Liberals are a favorite target, but not the only one. You feel the need to separate yourself from African-Americans and other minorities, and really, from anyone who thinks differently from you. Your world is very black and white; people are either with you or against you and there is no middle ground. You don't seem to care about hearing the stories of people who are different from you, maybe because you think they won't care about your story, or perhaps because you believe that the world is all about you. I bet you are kind of lonely as a result.

Last but not least, you are afraid to tell anyone what church you go to -- quite a profession of "faith".

I'll pray for you; I think that you need it much more than anyone targeted by that hurtful petition.

Re: Will the gay marriage amendment impact November?

The Conservative — Wed, 10 May 2006 09:54:45 -0000

You are wrong and not even worth a comment. Really dosen't matter what you think, we have many lawyers and work with many denominations. The law, that we know!

Re: Will the gay marriage amendment impact November?

Doubting Thomas — Wed, 10 May 2006 09:43:56 -0000

I don't believe that you are within the law, and know of several other churches that are not as well. If it is a white protestant congregation, and virulently anti-gay, then it most likely isn't episcopal, methodist, presbyterian, congregationalist, or united church of christ and it probably isn't lutheran or church of the brethren. That leaves the literalists, so pentecostal or southern baptist would be my guess. (And it must also be one who doesn't require it's members to know much about English grammar, or to think beyond stereotypes.)

Re: Will the gay marriage amendment impact November?

The Conservative — Wed, 10 May 2006 09:34:56 -0000

Laughing, get over yourself, typical Liberal. We are well within the law.

Re: Will the gay marriage amendment impact November?

Doubting Thomas — Wed, 10 May 2006 09:18:03 -0000

Non-profit organizations cannot engage in any sort of political activity they want, "Conservative". A pastor acting as the head of a church (churches are usually organized as non-profits) cannot, in her or his capacity as the head of the church, lobby for a certain political candidate, for example. The pastor can, acting as an individual and not as a pastor, lobby for a certain political candidate. So, if your pastor hands out a voter guide for a candidate in church, they have seriously endangered the churches non-profit status.

Now, "Conservative", where do you go to church? Not saying means you know that your church violates tax laws.

Re: Will the gay marriage amendment impact November?

The Conservative — Wed, 10 May 2006 09:02:30 -0000

Taxman; Laughing, You show you do not understand, a church can under the law use a per cent of money and time and not violate the law. Besides this is a christian issue, why woulden't God's church be heavely involved. We as christians are accountable before God as stewards of out time, money and involvemet. Oh incase you do not know, a pastor has every right to be politically involved as a citizen I have 7 elected committeemen in my church and others and working on more. The Black churches have been far more out spoken from the pulpit but that is okay because they are Democrats. The Protestant churches where the seats of government when this country was founded. Christians are responsible and accountable for their lack of involvement. Church is not just a building. If you attend one of those, then perhaps you should consider changing. The church covers many things, not just praying and taking care of the poor. The real church is a living body and turning the other cheek does not mean tolorating that which is against God's Word. Enough of this let's get back to politics.

Re: Will the gay marriage amendment impact November?

Taxman — Tue, 09 May 2006 23:42:57 -0000

Will the Conservative tell us what church it was where the pastor encouraged them to sign the petition? Doesn't engaging in political activity put their tax exempt status at risk?

Re: Will the gay marriage amendment impact November?

Grubnednarb — Tue, 09 May 2006 23:32:37 -0000

Since the referendum results are not binding on the legislature, it is a cynical effort and hackneyed Republican strategy to attract conservatives to the polling place when they would otherwise sit out this election because of Bush's dismal performance and/or discontent with the moderate Republican gubernatorial nominee.

My understanding is that the number of petitions submitted wasn't much above the minimum needed to qualify to be on the ballot.

No matter how hard you try to collect signatures of validly registered voters, a significant percentage will be found invalid if carefully scrutinized and legitimately challenged.

I am looking forward to volunteering on the petition challenge effort instead of just talking about it.

Re: Will the gay marriage amendment impact November?

Cal Skinner — Tue, 09 May 2006 20:07:23 -0000

I wish those who think this is a Republican conspiracy would explain why neither the state nor the national party supported gathering the petitions.